nakedjoe99
Member
Nelson, any luck with the amiloride?
How many of you are on diuretics for water retention on TRT?
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Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
It was not more effective than hydrochlorothiazide
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
Hydrochlorothiazide can cause insulin resistance and there are some reports linking it to ED, so I only use it infrequently specially when I cannot sweat enough sodium.
I just found this interesting paper.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
I will be doing a video today about water retention and testosterone.
I just found this interesting paper.
Zinc, hydrochlorothiazide and sexual dysfunction - PubMed
This study was designed to test the hypothesis that hydrochlorothiazide a diuretic used to treat hypertension depletes body zinc and thereby cause sexual dysfunction. Serum zinc and sexual dysfunction were measured in 39 middle aged hypertensive men who had been taking hydrochlorothiazide in...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
I will be doing a video today about water retention and testosterone.
When I increased from 50mg to 100mg weekly the water came on. Dr. gave me 12.5mg HTZ, helped a little bit. Occasionally I add 20mg Laxix, not prescibed. Works well.
Water gain can happen. Maybe it goes away. I’m too impatient to wait.
Others with more experience can wiegh in.
Water gain can happen. Maybe it goes away. I’m too impatient to wait.
Others with more experience can wiegh in.
nakedjoe99
Member
Yes, I am sensitive to any fluctuation in dosage as well. Are you micro-dosing daily? I just started a daily protocol a few days ago instead of twice per week. I'm going to give my body some time to normalize to see if there is any value in this. I have noticed that first thing in the morning, most of the water is gone. However, during the course of the day, regardless of diet, I end up looking like a water buffalo by evening. Then, magically, overnight, a water fairy seems to come and take the water away and I look better in the morning again. I do pee quite a bit during the night. Usually wake up about 4 - 5 times a night to pee. I wonder what the phenomenon is that makes me pee everything out over night...
Rock H. Johnson
Active Member
If you have it all over your body in an even way then it could simply be the dosage adjustment and how your body reacts to the T ester you are using. Or if you are not that long on TRT then it should simply regulate itself in 6-8months.
Do you retain the water in the lower extremities like ankles, top of feet or calves?
Do you have any heart issues you know about?
The answer has something to do with the pumping function of the heart. In essence, urine comes from the blood that has been filtered by the kidneys. If you have a heart problem, the blood pumping will be much weaker.
Now to explain it further, here's what actually happens—if the heart pumps blood at a weaker rate due to heart disease, then the blood will fail or will have difficulties to return to the heart. Swelling of the lower limbs (legs and ankles) will most likely occur as the blood pools in the extremities during the day.
At night, as the body lies down, the blood or fluid that accumulated in the lower limbs will return to the heart. This time, the heart will need to work harder. This in turn forces the kidneys to produce more urine to decrease pressure in the heart. The result is nocturia or frequent urination at night!
I do not want to sound alarmist but its good to look into this as you will be using exogenous testosterone for probably the rest of your life.
nakedjoe99
Member
Wow that does sound alarming. I've had an echocardiogram done and everything was ok. I'm not new to testosterone. I've been on high doses 500mg+ of test and other anabolics for the past ten years. The water retention was always an issue, especially when other compounds were added on top of it. Dosage increases also brought about more water retention. I didnt become sever until the last year or so.
Twice I traveled by plane in the past year. Both times I doubled my dose of whatever I was taking to keep me "covered" during the time i was away. Literally, over night I gained 12 - 15 pounds of water each time. The water stayed with me the entire trip until I returned. After the 2nd time, I thought I'd see a doctor.
Of course my blood work was horrible. So I went down to just 125mg per week of testosterone for about 4 months. The water slowly went away as my test levels dropped. During this time is when I got the echocardiogram.
I just had more bloodwork done a few weeks ago which yielded much better results, however my testosterone was at 305, so I increased my dose to 200mg per week. As soon as I increased it, the same thing happened.. I immediately began to retain water again overnight.
But, yes, during the night, I get up to urinate quite frequently. Which has always been the case. Most of the water is gone in the morning and my abs are visible. During the day, the water accumulates and by night I look like a bag of milk. My stomach does, but my extremities are vascular and lean and striated.
Note: when I had sever reactions in the past when I gained 12 -15 pounds of water, yes, my ankles and calves also swelled... pitting adema. But normally, there is very little to no water at my extremeties.
Duece12345
Member
Man I hope you are right! 2 months in and the water retention around my mid section and chest is awful. Decades of eating cleaning/lifting/cardio erased by 8lbs of water instantly!!
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Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
I have been using this for over a year. It is a weak diuretic (potassium sparing but not as effective for losing water weight as Hydrochlorothiazide).
Limiting intake of sweets and alcohol really helps me to keep water retention at bay.
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
I would not take spironolactone as it is an androgen blocker. It is used in women with PCOS that usually have testosterone excess.
nakedjoe99
Member
I think the androgen blocking effect of the spironolactone is part of the reason my doctor has me prescribed to it since androgens have an adverse effect on kidney function. Plus, it greatly reduces my proteinuria. Trust me, I don't want to take it but, considering the fact that I am at stage 2 kidney disease, it's something that I just have to deal with. I don't know of any other medication that will have the same effects without blocking androgens. Do you have any recommendations I can ask my doctor about?
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
I am taking amiloride 5 mg twice per day with good results to minimize water retention by excreting sodium and preventing loss of potassium. It is very mild.
nakedjoe99
Member
Thanks, Nelson, I'll ask my Dr. what he thinks about amiloride instead of spironolactone.
Are you still experimenting with this? Any sides or known issues with it long term?
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
Yes. I have been on it for a year or so now (amiloride twice per day). Helps with water retention. I added a calcium channel blocker one per day also (Norvasc) to bring my BP down some more to 120's over 80's
Deleted member 43589
Well-Known Member
Not sure what kind of blood pressure issue you have but I recently asked my cardiologist to switch me from Losartan to Telmisartan. I have systolic hypertension. In a few weeks my blood pressure has gone from 140/75 average to 120/75 average. Telmisartan has been shown to work very will with Hydrochlorothiazide which I have also been taking for years. I know a lot of steroid users who highly recommended Telmisartan
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
I like this aspect of it
Effects of telmisartan on fat distribution: a meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials - PubMed
The findings suggest that telmisartan affected fat distribution, inducing visceral fat reduction, and thus could be useful in hypertensive patients with obesity/overweight, metabolic syndrome, or glucose intolerance.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Deleted member 43589
Well-Known Member
Thanks Nelson, lots of benefits in using Telmisartan.
Hey, on the spironolactone. My cardiologist at one time wanted to put me on this stuff to lower my blood pressure because it was unresponsive to the Losartan. I know a lot of bodybuilders who use it the last 2-3 days of a show but for a very short period of time. So I started looking in the long terms effects and called my doctor back and absolutely refused to take this stuff. I told him WTF???? I'm on TRT and you want to kill the effects, not to mention change me from a very strong muscular man into a fat woman. Glad I switched to Telmisartan, I would make a very ugly woman, no doubt my wife would have a fit.
Here is what I found and you can imagine my mouth was wide open...
"Spironolactone is the most commonly prescribed anti-androgen (male hormone suppressant) for transgender women as part of their hormone therapy in the United States and Canada. It suppresses testosterone and helps create more opportunity for estrogen levels to rise" "But, as transgender researcher and peer coach Beverly Cosgrove pointed out in a well-circulated article earlier this year, spironolactone also has many other effects, including fatigue, fogginess, muscular atrophy, and weight gain, among others. One of its most profound effects does actually exactly what the drug is designed to do: kill your boner. Historically, the “goal” of hormone therapy was the total transformation of one’s genitals—that’s how the first doctors in the field of transsexualism imagined it, and that goal motivated the establishment of this treatment regimen of de facto castration."
slate.com
Hey, on the spironolactone. My cardiologist at one time wanted to put me on this stuff to lower my blood pressure because it was unresponsive to the Losartan. I know a lot of bodybuilders who use it the last 2-3 days of a show but for a very short period of time. So I started looking in the long terms effects and called my doctor back and absolutely refused to take this stuff. I told him WTF???? I'm on TRT and you want to kill the effects, not to mention change me from a very strong muscular man into a fat woman. Glad I switched to Telmisartan, I would make a very ugly woman, no doubt my wife would have a fit.
Here is what I found and you can imagine my mouth was wide open...
"Spironolactone is the most commonly prescribed anti-androgen (male hormone suppressant) for transgender women as part of their hormone therapy in the United States and Canada. It suppresses testosterone and helps create more opportunity for estrogen levels to rise" "But, as transgender researcher and peer coach Beverly Cosgrove pointed out in a well-circulated article earlier this year, spironolactone also has many other effects, including fatigue, fogginess, muscular atrophy, and weight gain, among others. One of its most profound effects does actually exactly what the drug is designed to do: kill your boner. Historically, the “goal” of hormone therapy was the total transformation of one’s genitals—that’s how the first doctors in the field of transsexualism imagined it, and that goal motivated the establishment of this treatment regimen of de facto castration."
Spironolactone, a Controversial Drug Used in Hormone Replacement Therapy, Is Not Right for All Trans Women
But an underresourced, check-box-focused medical system insists on one size fitting all.
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Me too! Take 40mg Test Prop daily and have zero bloat, slight water retention. No AI's and just had Hemo and Hematocrit done last week. All good! I do SQ injections with an insulin syringe. Messed with Enanthate, Cyp amd find daily NIGHTTIME injections of prop great. Sleep well, good hard on, good mood. Just get tired sometimes bevause I live in a hot country. Will check my test levels and E2 in two weeks. May've gone off topic but I'm new here lol
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