How Many Milligrams Of Testosterone Do Men Naturally Produce?

[Gianluca]

I have seen @Cataceous writing this over and over, but recently watched a couple of videos were it was also mentioned how much testosterone a man naturally produce. High HCT? acne? water retention? anxiety/restless, they may be all side effects of supraphysiologic Test dosing.

Andrew Huberman on Joe Rogan, claims natural production can go as high as 15mg per day, not sure where the data is of this.

.


I'm thinking to lower my dose slowly, to closely match the natural daily production.


Less is better

 

[Cataceous]

...
Andrew Huberman on Joe Rogan, claims natural production can go as high as 15mg per day, not sure where the data is of this.
...

Going by statistics it's theoretically possible, but considering it's around four standard deviations above the mean the odds are less than one in 30,000. I doubt you'll find any actual measurements close to that. In real life it would likely require prodigious testicles along with regulatory dysfunction in the HPTA.

 

[tareload]

Study up on AIS/PAIS:.

What is TRT and What is NOT TRT

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/cen.14068 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/cen.13840 The only group of humans walking around above 1200 ng/dL except for those taking exogenous testosterone. The testosterone levels in the genetic males with 5ARD2 and AIS are...

forums.t-nation.com

No you don't want it. Huberman and Attia seem lately to be wanting more clicks on YT than staying true to their scientific training.

Note the results above are most likely skewed by higher SHBG levels. But reinforces the point that 4 sigma deviation most likely a derangement not part of the norm.

https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article-pdf/101/11/3959/10527482/jcem3959.pdf

 

[Vince]

I always believe the older generation of men had much greater testosterone levels than a men today.

I still know men today that are in their 60s and have natural levels of 1,000 or close to it.

 

[Willyt]

FYI, here is the full article from the MPMD guy.

How Many Milligrams Of Testosterone Do Men Naturally Produce?

How many milligrams of Testosterone do men naturally produce? The answer is 3-10 milligrams per day, with the average being 6-7 milligrams per day.

moreplatesmoredates.com

This should be required reading for new TRT patients! I wish someone had explained to me early on that 10mg Cyp/Enan daily = natural production for heathy male.

He has interesting quote: "My TRT is currently 125 mg per week, and even that is pushing into supraphysiological territory when you actually split that shot into seven micro shots to keep more stable blood serum concentrations."

 

[tareload]

https://assets.researchsquare.com/files/rs-2037061/v1/f6b6ce84-9834-4f4f-ac3f-6e6fca52cee8.pdf?c=1663338584

 

[Gianluca]

Study up on AIS/PAIS:.

What is TRT and What is NOT TRT

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/cen.14068 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/cen.13840 The only group of humans walking around above 1200 ng/dL except for those taking exogenous testosterone. The testosterone levels in the genetic males with 5ARD2 and AIS are...

forums.t-nation.com

View attachment 28451


No you don't want it. Huberman and Attia seem lately to be wanting more clicks on YT than staying true to their scientific training.

Note the results above are most likely skewed by higher SHBG levels. But reinforces the point that 4 sigma deviation most likely a derangement not part of the norm.

https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article-pdf/101/11/3959/10527482/jcem3959.pdf

View attachment 28453

thanks for attaching this! I appreciate it.

 

[DaveK22]

FYI, here is the full article from the MPMD guy.

How Many Milligrams Of Testosterone Do Men Naturally Produce?

How many milligrams of Testosterone do men naturally produce? The answer is 3-10 milligrams per day, with the average being 6-7 milligrams per day.

moreplatesmoredates.com

I liked this part...

Splitting a large dosage/administration of 125 mg per week into 7 administrations/micro-doses of 18 mg per day increases Free Testosterone more relative to a large weekly dosage, decreases the amount of aromatization to Estrogen occurring in the body, and maintains more stable Testosterone blood serum concentrations.

 

[DorianGray]

I have no fear of needles but daily injections sure don't appeal to me. Plus, any added HCG separately.

 

[Gianluca]

@Cataceous I was reading some comments of yours in another thread. It was mentioned that considering the physiologic testosterone production, because naturally Testosterone fluctuates during the day, when on TRT we should account for a 20 to 30% more. why is that?

 

[Jerajera]

I liked this part...

Splitting a large dosage/administration of 125 mg per week into 7 administrations/micro-doses of 18 mg per day increases Free Testosterone more relative to a large weekly dosage, decreases the amount of aromatization to Estrogen occurring in the body, and maintains more stable Testosterone blood serum concentrations.

I'm not sure that's correct. My trough E2 levels were much higher on daily injections than on E3.5D injections, which makes sense since your trough is going to be lower on less frequent injections (and peak higher, of course).

Similarly, trough Free T will be higher on more frequent injections, but I don't know that the area under the curve is significantly different between different injection protocols

 

[Cataceous]

@Cataceous I was reading some comments of yours in another thread. It was mentioned that considering the physiologic testosterone production, because naturally Testosterone fluctuates during the day, when on TRT we should account for a 20 to 30% more. why is that?

Here's the context: This applies to men on TRT who are using methods that provide stable testosterone levels, which include injecting testosterone cypionate relatively frequently. Endogenous testosterone does vary in men throughout the day, but typically the morning peak is used as the representative value. It's hypothesized that the peak level has some independent effects. If a guy on TRT with static levels wants to target a particular level of testosterone to match the peak seen in endogenous production then he needs to use a little more testosterone. To illustrate: Suppose a guy naturally has daily peak total testosterone of 600 ng/dL, trough of 400 ng/dL, and an overall average of 500 ng/dL. Further suppose that his total daily production is 6 mg of testosterone. If this guy goes on TRT and has static levels then how much testosterone must he take to match his natural peak of 600 ng/dL? On TRT, his peak, trough and average values are all the same. The daily production rate or dose rate of testosterone drives the average level. Therefore, on TRT this guy must take roughly 600/500 * 6 mg = 7.2 mg testosterone daily to achieve a constant level of 600 ng/dL. The calculation should actually be based on free testosterone rather than total, because it seems likely that free testosterone, more than total, is linear with dose.

It might also be hypothesized that there are some benefits in having diurnal variation in testosterone. If so these are defeated by having relatively constant levels. --insert usual plug for daily propionate blend here--

 

[Gianluca]

Here's the context: This applies to men on TRT who are using methods that provide stable testosterone levels, which include injecting testosterone cypionate relatively frequently. Endogenous testosterone does vary in men throughout the day, but typically the morning peak is used as the representative value. It's hypothesized that the peak level has some independent effects. If a guy on TRT with static levels wants to target a particular level of testosterone to match the peak seen in endogenous production then he needs to use a little more testosterone. To illustrate: Suppose a guy naturally has daily peak total testosterone of 600 ng/dL, trough of 400 ng/dL, and an overall average of 500 ng/dL. Further suppose that his total daily production is 6 mg of testosterone. If this guy goes on TRT and has static levels then how much testosterone must he take to match his natural peak of 600 ng/dL? On TRT, his peak, trough and average values are all the same. The daily production rate or dose rate of testosterone drives the average level. Therefore, on TRT this guy must take roughly 600/500 * 6 mg = 7.2 mg testosterone daily to achieve a constant level of 600 ng/dL. The calculation should actually be based on free testosterone rather than total, because it seems likely that free testosterone, more than total, is linear with dose.

It might also be hypothesized that there are some benefits in having diurnal variation in testosterone. If so these are defeated by having relatively constant levels. --insert usual plug for daily propionate blend here--

Understood, as always thanks for the well thorough explanation.