How (I think) I was able to control my Hematocrit and High Iron

[maxadvance]

just curcumin and bioperrine, my maintenance dose is 1500 mg, 3000 mg a day when I'm actively trying to lower it. Why would I use anything else if I don't need to? I've always hydrated, is not and never has been the issue. Has kept me in the low 50's, and Im comfortable where I'm at. Highly recommend aerobic exercise to go with it, and for that matter along with any T therapy.

 

[HealthMan]

does the zinc not aide in ur total test levels being risen slightly? zinc is supposed to help raise test....

Don't think zinc does anything for someone using exogenous testosterone. The reason i added zinc was a few studies showing it competes with iron and lower iron levels

 

[HealthMan]

just curcumin and bioperrine, my maintenance dose is 1500 mg, 3000 mg a day when I'm actively trying to lower it. Why would I use anything else if I don't need to? I've always hydrated, is not and never has been the issue. Has kept me in the low 50's, and Im comfortable where I'm at. Highly recommend aerobic exercise to go with it, and for that matter along with any T therapy.

Curcumin alone did very little to me unfortunately. But everyone is different

 

[shieldsbounce]

First time poster here but I ocassionally stalk these forums, reddit, t-nation and google regarding hematocrit looking for an answer to manage it better and I came across this post yesterday evening!

@HealthMan

I'm interested in trying out your protocol. I once tried TRT just over a year ago (doctor prescribed Tostran 10mg x2 daily applied scrotally) and it took a couple of weeks before I started experiencing PV like symptoms (permanent headaches, itchy/prickly skin when taking hot baths; extremely flushed at all times and my blood pressure went up from normal to hypertension!). I had an unquenchable thirst as if I could have drank all the water on planet earth and still want more...it was not a pleasant experience!

I got a blood test during this period which showed my HCT to be around 49%. My ferritin levels were around 170 but unfortunately my iron serum levels were haemolysed so I don't have the data to hand.

I ended up withdrawing from TRT immediately and got a phlebotomist to take a pint and after a couple of days all of the problems I experienced disppeared.

What I'm wondering was all of that due to poorly managed iron levels and if I were to repeat the TRT with your protocol, perhaps the symptoms I experienced would vanish entirely.

I've decided to go ahead and try your protocol anyway just so I can see if I see any benefits. Will be a couple of days before I get it. My Tostran has expired too so I'll need to get another script so I can get started!

One question I had about the lactoferritin, does the source matter particularly? I've seen some posts floating about showing that lactoferritin is present in whey protein. Although the point you originally meant about taking it on an empty stomach would probably negate using whey.

 

[HealthMan]

First time poster here but I ocassionally stalk these forums, reddit, t-nation and google regarding hematocrit looking for an answer to manage it better and I came across this post yesterday evening!

@HealthMan

I'm interested in trying out your protocol. I once tried TRT just over a year ago (doctor prescribed Tostran 10mg x2 daily applied scrotally) and it took a couple of weeks before I started experiencing PV like symptoms (permanent headaches, itchy/prickly skin when taking hot baths; extremely flushed at all times and my blood pressure went up from normal to hypertension!). I had an unquenchable thirst as if I could have drank all the water on planet earth and still want more...it was not a pleasant experience!

I got a blood test during this period which showed my HCT to be around 49%. My ferritin levels were around 170 but unfortunately my iron serum levels were haemolysed so I don't have the data to hand.

I ended up withdrawing from TRT immediately and got a phlebotomist to take a pint and after a couple of days all of the problems I experienced disppeared.

What I'm wondering was all of that due to poorly managed iron levels and if I were to repeat the TRT with your protocol, perhaps the symptoms I experienced would vanish entirely.

I've decided to go ahead and try your protocol anyway just so I can see if I see any benefits. Will be a couple of days before I get it. My Tostran has expired too so I'll need to get another script so I can get started!

One question I had about the lactoferritin, does the source matter particularly? I've seen some posts floating about showing that lactoferritin is present in whey protein. Although the point you originally meant about taking it on an empty stomach would probably negate using whey.

It needs to be apolactoferrin (not saturated with iron). Hence i chose Jarrow brand and it worked very well for me. There are not many brands that sell apolactoferrin. I am aware of Jarrow and Life Extension. Using Lactoferrin (saturated with iron) wont work. It will actually aid in increase iron levels

 

[Gunga]

This is my experience after studying and dealing with high hematocrit due to TRT. It worked for me maybe it might work for others.

Me like many users here had the problem of high hematocrit and the need for frequent blood donations and dealing with low ferritin. I tried everything and nothing really worked other than drastically reducing my testosterone dosage.
It is well known that exogenous testosterone reduces hepcidin an iron regulatory hormone. And frequent blood donations also further reduce hepcidin levels adding to the problem. In my case my serum iron levels and iron saturation also got really high. So I always speculate that the lower hepcidin was behind - at least partially - the increase in hematocrit in TRT users. Recently I found one study supporting this and other studies pointing to the same direction. I am not suggesting that TRT patients with high HcT have PV. I am just saying that In PV / hemochromatosis hepcidin levels are suppressed. (i also found a study on mice showing that hepcidin is not essential in mediating testosterone’s effect on erythropoiesis):

Novel Hepcidin Mimetic Demonstrates Dose-Related Control of Hematocrit Levels in PV

Initial results from an ongoing phase 2 study demonstrate that PTG-300 provided dose-related control of hematocrit levels and eliminated the need for phlebotomy in patients with PV.

www.oncnet.com

So I tried to find ways to lower my serum iron and iron absorption in order to compensate for the lower hepcidin levels (ideally one would inject hepcidin but this is not available) So i came up with the following protocol after a lot of research and trial and error:


2 IP6 Jarrow on very empty stomach
1 Lactoferrin Jarrow on very empty stomach
1 Curcumin Sports Research
1 Zinc balance Jarrow
1 Baby aspirin

All taken daily.

I saw results in a couple of months and maintained now for a couple of years.

Before:

Average HCT: 51-52% that donating blood (normal range 37.5-51)
Average Serum iron: 160-232 (normal range 38-169)
Iron Saturation: 50-80 (normal range 15-55)

After:

Average HCT: 48-49% not donating any blood (normal range 37.5-51) H
Average Serum iron: 64-85 (normal range 38-169)
Average Iron Saturation: 18-25 (normal range 15-55)

From my experience what really helped here was mainly Lactoferrin (Apolactoferrin), IP6 and potentially aspirin (that cause small bleeding and might aid in reducing both iron and HCT slightly).

Difference in serum iron and iron saturation was shocking. And this after years of issues with high iron / iron saturation. Ferritin now is back to 100 handle.

it has been a couple of years under this protocol and HCT iron ferritin etc all look great and no more blood donations.

Thanks so much for this!

I’m struggling with high blood pressure due to high hematocrit after a Nandrolone trial.

How do I decipher the above stated dosages?

2 grams IP6?
1 gram Lactoferrin?

Or is that the number of capsules?

Very much appreciated your detail above!

 

[HealthMan]

Thanks so much for this!

I’m struggling with high blood pressure due to high hematocrit after a Nandrolone trial.

How do I decipher the above stated dosages?

2 grams IP6?
1 gram Lactoferrin?

Or is that the number of capsules?

Very much appreciated your detail above!

IP6 1000mg
Apolactoferrin 250mg

can you share more your trial with nandrolone? I am contemplating give nandrolone a go (if my doctor approves) but i am a bit worried about hematocrit

 

[Gunga]

It was not a great experience for me and I was on a small dose of 8 mgs daily. This was in addition to my 10mgs of Test Cyp daily. After 8-10 weeks my Hemoglobin was over 19! Hematocrit over 57!

My blood pressure spiked to scary levels, 180/120 scary. I did a double red donation, got on BP meds, stopped Nandrolone and lowered my Test dose and it’s come down to 130/84 now.

 

[HealthMan]

It was not a great experience for me and I was on a small dose of 8 mgs daily. This was in addition to my 10mgs of Test Cyp daily. After 8-10 weeks my Hemoglobin was over 19! Hematocrit over 57!

My blood pressure spiked to scary levels, 180/120 scary. I did a double red donation, got on BP meds, stopped Nandrolone and lowered my Test dose and it’s come down to 130/84 now.

Ouch. What was your hematocrit before adding nandrolone?

 

[Gunga]

Ouch. What was your hematocrit before adding nandrolone?

I was flirting with a hematocrit of 51 before every regular donation. Nandrolone really accelerated the red cell production for me. I feel much better since I discontinued and lowered my Test dose.

 

[MarkLA]

IP6 and Lactoferrin i take in the morning on an empty stomach while i am fasting. The Curcumin i take after lunch and the aspirin and zinc i take after dinner

I had a friend who stopped taking aspirin due to stomach issues. Bleeding, I think. Only later did a doctor mention that taking it with food could alleviate that.. YMMV. Thanks for posting.

 

[J2048b]

It was not a great experience for me and I was on a small dose of 8 mgs daily. This was in addition to my 10mgs of Test Cyp daily. After 8-10 weeks my Hemoglobin was over 19! Hematocrit over 57!

My blood pressure spiked to scary levels, 180/120 scary. I did a double red donation, got on BP meds, stopped Nandrolone and lowered my Test dose and it’s come down to 130/84 now.

what did u change ur test intatake to? u were on 10 mlgs per day 7 days per week? 70 mlgs per week

 

[J2048b]

IP6 1000mg
Apolactoferrin 250mg

can you share more your trial with nandrolone? I am contemplating give nandrolone a go (if my doctor approves) but i am a bit worried about hematocrit

wouldnt 2 grams equal 2000 mlgs? and 1 gram equal 1000 mlgs? just trying to decipher ur math,,,,

 

[Gunga]

what did u change ur test intatake to? u were on 10 mlgs per day 7 days per week? 70 mlgs per week

Yes. 10 mgs daily. I lowered it to 8 mgs daily for a while in an effort to get hematocrit under control. I could feel the difference. It might also be that I recently started topical finasteride. I’m also doing 1 click 100mg/ml cream On scrotum daily.

 

[HealthMan]

Hepcidin/Ferritin Quotient Helps to Predict Spontaneous Recovery from Iron Loss following Blood Donation

Iron supplementation is generally recommended for blood donors even though there are inter-individual differences in iron homeostasis.Ferritin levels of repeat donors were compared with first-time donors, retrospectively. Prospectively, we tested 27 male ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Impact of blood donation on hepcidin levels. TRT lowers hepcidin and blood donations lowers hepcidin levels even more

 

[HealthMan]

Frontiers | Hepcidin and Anemia: A Tight Relationship

Hepcidin, the master regulator of systemic iron homeostasis, tightly influences erythrocyte production. High hepcidin levels block intestinal iron absorption...

www.frontiersin.org

“Low hepcidin levels favor bone marrow iron supply for hemoglobin synthesis and red blood cells production”

 

[HealthMan]

Manipulation of the hepcidin pathway for therapeutic purposes

Hepcidin, the liver-produced peptide hormone, is a principal regulator of iron homeostasis. Abnormal hepcidin production has emerged as a causative factor in several common iron disorders. Hepcidin insufficiency results in iron overload in hereditary ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Arcane]

This is my experience after studying and dealing with high hematocrit due to TRT. It worked for me maybe it might work for others.

Me like many users here had the problem of high hematocrit and the need for frequent blood donations and dealing with low ferritin. I tried everything and nothing really worked other than drastically reducing my testosterone dosage.
It is well known that exogenous testosterone reduces hepcidin an iron regulatory hormone. And frequent blood donations also further reduce hepcidin levels adding to the problem. In my case my serum iron levels and iron saturation also got really high. So I always speculate that the lower hepcidin was behind - at least partially - the increase in hematocrit in TRT users. Recently I found one study supporting this and other studies pointing to the same direction. I am not suggesting that TRT patients with high HcT have PV. I am just saying that In PV / hemochromatosis hepcidin levels are suppressed. (i also found a study on mice showing that hepcidin is not essential in mediating testosterone’s effect on erythropoiesis):

Novel Hepcidin Mimetic Demonstrates Dose-Related Control of Hematocrit Levels in PV

Initial results from an ongoing phase 2 study demonstrate that PTG-300 provided dose-related control of hematocrit levels and eliminated the need for phlebotomy in patients with PV.

www.oncnet.com

So I tried to find ways to lower my serum iron and iron absorption in order to compensate for the lower hepcidin levels (ideally one would inject hepcidin but this is not available) So i came up with the following protocol after a lot of research and trial and error:


2 IP6 Jarrow on very empty stomach
1 Lactoferrin Jarrow on very empty stomach
1 Curcumin Sports Research
1 Zinc balance Jarrow
1 Baby aspirin

All taken daily.

I saw results in a couple of months and maintained now for a couple of years.

Before:

Average HCT: 51-52% that donating blood (normal range 37.5-51)
Average Serum iron: 160-232 (normal range 38-169)
Iron Saturation: 50-80 (normal range 15-55)

After:

Average HCT: 48-49% not donating any blood (normal range 37.5-51) H
Average Serum iron: 64-85 (normal range 38-169)
Average Iron Saturation: 18-25 (normal range 15-55)

From my experience what really helped here was mainly Lactoferrin (Apolactoferrin), IP6 and potentially aspirin (that cause small bleeding and might aid in reducing both iron and HCT slightly).

Difference in serum iron and iron saturation was shocking. And this after years of issues with high iron / iron saturation. Ferritin now is back to 100 handle.

it has been a couple of years under this protocol and HCT iron ferritin etc all look great and no more blood donations.

I read an older thread of yours where you tried EOD dosing, and your HCT skyrocketed (Probably a 3 or 4 year old thread now)

are you back to every 3.5 day dosing? That didn't fix your HCT issues?

 

[madman]

I read an older thread of yours where you tried EOD dosing, and your HCT skyrocketed (Probably a 3 or 4 year old thread now)

are you back to every 3.5 day dosing? That didn't fix your HCT issues?

I stated numerous times before it is not a given that more frequent injections will result in lowering hematocrit let alone estradiol as unfortunately too many are still running too high a trough TT/FT levels on such protocols!

I would be much more concerned with where your trough FT level truly sits on such protocol whether injecting once weekly, twice weekly (every 3.5 days), M/W/F, EOD, or daily.

Your trough FT levels were high on your previous protocol (twice weekly injections) and even then as I stated we have no idea where your FT levels truly sat as you did not have it tested using the most accurate assays such as ED or UF.

Your hematocrit was only 47 nmol/L which is far from being considered too high.

You just recently switched to EOD injections and are only 2 weeks in and luckily you had taken the advice and stuck it out as you were ready to bail after a 1 week in!

No point in getting worked up as to where your hematocrit may land.

Just sit back get labs in at 6 weeks to see where such protocol (dose T/injection frequency) has your true trough TT, FT, e2, and RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit.

 

[Arcane]

I stated numerous times before it is not a given that more frequent injections will result in lowering hematocrit let alone estradiol as unfortunately too many are still running too high a trough TT/FT levels on such protocols!

I would be much more concerned with where your trough FT level truly sits on such protocol whether injecting once weekly, twice weekly (every 3.5 days), M/W/F, EOD, or daily.

Your trough FT levels were high on your previous protocol (twice weekly injections) and even then as I stated we have no idea where your FT levels truly sat as you did not have it tested using the most accurate assays such as ED or UF.

Your hematocrit was only 47 nmol/L which is far from being considered too high.

You just recently switched to EOD injections and are only 2 weeks in and luckily you had taken the advice and stuck it out as you were ready to bail after a 1 week in!

No point in getting worked up as to where your hematocrit may land.

Just sit back get labs in at 6 weeks to see where such protocol (dose T/injection frequency) has your true trough TT, FT, e2, and RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit.

I take feedback from multiple sources, then come to a conclusion (as everyone should). Your responses alone aren't conclusive.