High Free Test. Normal Total

[magnus68]

Is it normal to have a high free test and normal total testosterone? I am currently taking 150 mg cipionate a week. Blood test was done prior to injection so day 6.

 

[Gman86]

Ur free test isn’t even that high. The original quest range, or the range for another one of their free T tests, goes up to 224. That’s the range that I go by whenever I use quest to test my free T level. So ur level is right near the top, but slightly below. I personally like my free T level to be as close to 400 as possible when I get it checked through quest. That’s where I feel my best, and can keep all blood markers in a healthy range. 214 would be too low for me personally. I wouldn’t feel near as good at that level. But obv everyone’s different.

 

[Cataceous]

Ur free test isn’t even that high. The original quest range, or the range for another one of their free T tests, goes up to 224. ...

That's a totally different test. The comparison is apples-to-oranges. The test used here is based on equilibrium dialysis, which is considered to be the gold standard. Being 40% over top of range is clearly quite high compared to normal physiology. Worse is that it's close to a trough value, meaning peak levels could be double or more. There are a couple implications: First, low SHBG is likely. Second, the testosterone dose is about double what's physiological. Given your heart issues I think the risks should be carefully evaluated. Check out this thread and especially @readalot's posts in the later pages.

 

[Gman86]

That's a totally different test. The comparison is apples-to-oranges. The test used here is based on equilibrium dialysis, which is considered to be the gold standard. Being 40% over top of range is clearly quite high compared to normal physiology. Worse is that it's close to a trough value, meaning peak levels could be double or more. There are a couple implications: First, low SHBG is likely. Second, the testosterone dose is about double what's physiological. Given your heart issues I think the risks should be carefully evaluated. Check out this thread and especially @readalot's posts in the later pages.

Don’t both tests use the same unit of measurement tho (pg/ml)? How much different can the results of each test really be?

Good point about him testing at trough. He’s on weekly injections, so ur right, and his levels could be drastically higher at their peak

 

[Systemlord]

Is it normal to have a high free test and normal total testosterone?

My Free T is supraphysiological (30 pg/mL) when my Total T is 700 ng/dL and I have low SHBG sitting in the mid-teens. I peak around 1000 ng/dL at 2 hours and at 715 at 4 hours on Jatenzo putting my Free T well above 30 pg/mL and even possibly 50-60 pg/mL at peak.

 

[Cataceous]

Don’t both tests use the same unit of measurement tho (pg/ml)? How much different can the results of each test really be?
...

Having the same units is irrelevant. The tests use different methods and have different reference ranges. They cannot be directly compared. Testing free testosterone remains tricky. Only where there are harmonized/standardized tests will we be able to compare results from different labs.

 

[DS3]

That's a totally different test. The comparison is apples-to-oranges. The test used here is based on equilibrium dialysis, which is considered to be the gold standard. Being 40% over top of range is clearly quite high compared to normal physiology. Worse is that it's close to a trough value, meaning peak levels could be double or more. There are a couple implications: First, low SHBG is likely. Second, the testosterone dose is about double what's physiological. Given your heart issues I think the risks should be carefully evaluated. Check out this thread and especially @readalot's posts in the later pages.

I’m fairly certain the practical implications of the rat studies were dispelled.

 

[tareload]

I’m fairly certain the practical implications of the rat studies were dispelled.

There are a few more clarifications I should add to that thread but at this point I'm not feeling really motivated to spend much more energy. There aren't any rat studies with TRT type dosing regimens to compare against for any relevant length of time and then that leads into looking at serum TT levels in rodents vs mg/kg and metabolism PK profiles. I did look into that briefly. Almost no one is going to read that stuff and we've got poster above claiming 30 pg/ml (fT) is supra after him spending years on forums. Bullseye asymmetry principle in action at its finest.

Thanks for the discussion and I don't think we are on different sides.

Most are going to do what they want to do. Further investment if my time ain't going to change anything, especially with something this arcane. Take it easy.

 

[tareload]

My Free T is supraphysiological (30 pg/mL) when my Total T is 700 ng/dL and I have low SHBG sitting in the mid-teens.

Would be <30 ng/dl not 30 pg/ml. 30 pg/ml would be 3 ng/dl.

I sympathize with dudes who come on these forums with no math, chemistry, science, units background. It is a cluster to see all this stuff.

cfTV and cfTZ would have you between 22-26 nd/dl at 700 ng/dl TT and SHBG of 15 nmol/l (std albumin assumption). Both calculators agree pretty well on the low end of SHBG.

Given your immense time spend on the forums, your authoritative user name, and the tons of guidance you dish out, don't you feel the least bit of responsibility to get your facts straight for the new guys so these dudes can learn correctly?

 

[Cataceous]

Would be <30 ng/dl not 30 pg/ml. 30 pg/ml would be 3 ng/dl.
...

He may be referring to LabCorp's direct FT test, which has a reference range of 6.6-18.1 pg/mL. But he's been around long enough to know that these immunoassay tests are too inaccurate to use.

 

[Systemlord]

He may be referring to LabCorp's direct FT test, which has a reference range of 6.6-18.1 pg/mL.

Correct.

 

[Systemlord]

Given your immense time spend on the forums, your authoritative user name, and the tons of guidance you dish out, don't you feel the least bit of responsibility to get your facts straight for the new guys so these dudes can learn correctly?

I could ask the same thing of you; I'm just going based off the lab result as the direct Free T measurement was used.

 

[tareload]

I could ask the same thing of you; I'm just going based off the lab result as the direct Free T measurement was used.

Heart Palpitations with Test C Use

My doctor doesn’t test Free T directly, he prefers to get my calculated Free T going off my SHBG using the Tru-T calculator.

forums.t-nation.com

Hmmm, interesting. Which one is it?

So you are aware of Tru-T calculator and rough order of magnitude error with direct free T measurement vs fT by ED? You just choose to give guys the impression that a direct free T measurement of 30 pg/ml is supraphysiologic and don't want to make the effort to educate on the distinction between fT via direct RIA vs fT from LC-MS/MS/ED or cfTV?

Is this a different person over at T-Nation?

FYI again:

Free testosterone by direct and calculated measurement versus equilibrium dialysis in a clinical population

(2013). Free testosterone by direct and calculated measurement versus equilibrium dialysis in a clinical population. The Aging Male: Vol. 16, No. 4, pp. 164-168.

www.tandfonline.com

144980: Testosterone, Free, Direct | Labcorp

Labcorp test details for Testosterone, Free, Direct

www.labcorp.com

 

[tareload]

He may be referring to LabCorp's direct FT test, which has a reference range of 6.6-18.1 pg/mL. But he's been around long enough to know that these immunoassay tests are too inaccurate to use.

Blood Numbers

Hi all, My blood numbers came back as: T = 660 Free T = 126.1 Help and advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

www.excelmale.com

TT is the junk hormone. Nice!

 

[hurleytmark]

Ur free test isn’t even that high. The original quest range, or the range for another one of their free T tests, goes up to 224. That’s the range that I go by whenever I use quest to test my free T level. So ur level is right near the top, but slightly below. I personally like my free T level to be as close to 400 as possible when I get it checked through quest. That’s where I feel my best, and can keep all blood markers in a healthy range. 214 would be too low for me personally. I wouldn’t feel near as good at that level. But obv everyone’s different.

Damn....400 is crazy high.

My level is 154.8 pg/ml and I can pack on muscle quite rapidly at such levels.....It depends on your sensitivity to testosterone. Lower sensitivity implies that you'll need more testosterone to function.

I wouldn't compare the ranges either because the methods for testing would change. The upper limit (155 pg/ml) is there for a reason. They use statistical analysis to create the range (percentiles).

 

[Systemlord]

Hmmm, interesting. Which one is it?

This was through Defy Medical, not through my provider.

 

[Gman86]

Damn....400 is crazy high.

My level is 154.8 pg/ml and I can pack on muscle quite rapidly at such levels.....It depends on your sensitivity to testosterone. Lower sensitivity implies that you'll need more testosterone to function.

I wouldn't compare the ranges either because the methods for testing would change. The upper limit (155 pg/ml) is there for a reason. They use statistical analysis to create the range (percentiles).

Isn’t 400 for the quest free T lab basically equivalent to 40 on the labcorp free T lab? If u think of it that way it’s really not that high