I have been following many of the posts in the discussion forums for some time now and have now decided to finally create a profile and voice some of my concerns/issues with TRT. I am having issues with my TRT protocol and am asking if anyone can help.
I am about to turn 26. Male. I have been using Testosterone since I was 18. Long story short, I used anabolics that early because I was competing in BB shows. I grew up in a small town where quite a few males my age and older were using steroids so it was a social norm. Regardless, it was a mistake.
Nevertheless, I got my head on straight about steroid use when I was 22 and visited BCM to begin assessment and subsequent treatment. TT upon entering into treatment (after stopping all anabolic use) was 89 ng/dl, LH .46 (6-19 ref range), FSH.62 (4-10 ref range, SHBG 6 (10-55 ref range), estradial 2 (.5-5.0 ref range). The PCT was for 2 months and consisted of Clomid and HCG under the close supervision of a doctor (I am keeping names confidential) at the BCM. Two months later my TT was 282 ng/dl, SHBG was 14, estradiol was 4. LH and FSH were not retested at this time. Subjectively I felt horrible on this protocol. I chose at this time to begin TRT treatment with Test Cyp weekly injections. This was back in 2014.
Jump forward to 2018. I began using HCG at the beginning of 2017 (January) because I began dating my now fiance and could not sexually 'perform' without HCG. Prior to this initiation of HCG, I avoided its use because of various side effects, yet my testicles perpetually remained atrophied. I decided to stop taking HCG three weeks ago to determine if I felt better. As I suspected, I did. Subsequently, I initiated Clomid therapy, 25mg EOD to see if that helped (I know the arguments against its use with Testosterone and that is not what I need help with).
Clomid and HCG both seem to create similar side effects in me which my doctor cannot explain and I need serious help. Not only do I need to be able to take HCG, Clomid, or both so that I can attempt to have a baby in the next 18 months, I do not feel quite right on just Testosterone alone. I am going to explain how the side effects that I feel and see if anyone could possibly shed some light on what might be happening.
Testosterone Therapy by itself, side effects:
1. Clear-headed (as far as academic learning goes)
2. Edgy
3. Low energy
4. Testicular atrophy
5. Emotional 'disconnected' feeling
6. Able to maintain low 'water weight' and low BF (relatively)
HCG and TRT: (HCG 400 iu 2x/week) (Test cyp .55 every 4 days)
1. Within an hour of taking HCG and lasting for at least 3 days post shot:
a. Extreme head fog
b. memory loss (cannot seem to form new memories, or remember old information which is highly important to me as I am finishing a master's program and will go on to get a PhD- I need my head working right)
c. Water weight- extreme
d. Extreme lethargy/apathy
e. Stomach pain/nausea- extreme
f. Testicles increase in size
g. Sperm volume increases
h. Sexual function greatly enhanced
i. increased body fat
Clomid & TRT:
1. Sexual function greatly enhanced
2. Sperm volume does not increase seemingly
3. Good energy
4. Stomach pain/nausea
5. Water retention
6. Head fog (goes in and out)
7. Memory function decreased (goes in and out)
What have I tried?
1. Anastrozole to determine if it was an E2 issue (however, my labs come back normal on E2 over the past 4 years, always 2 or less on a reference range of 0.5-5.0. Anastrozole .25 mg just once per week crashes my E2 (I get dry joints, brittle hair, dried skin, low energy, etc.)
2. Timing of HCG and dosing (before I quit three weeks ago)
a. I went all the way down to 50 iu twice per week and the same horrible symptoms with HCG such as extreme nausea, bloat, water retention, lethargy, head fog, memory impairment all existed.
b. I tried once per week HCG shots. The latter end of the week when HCG was no longer active my symptoms clear up, only to come about again with the next HCG shot.
3. I just began calcium d-glucarate and DIM yesterday to determine if its an estrogen metabolism issue. I will have to wait and see if those work.
4. Not taking HCG. The aforementioned side effects disappear yet the side effects of TRT only reappear (the good symptom of this is my head is clear finally).
I do not know what to do. Clomid is giving me the same nausea and bloat so I am assuming these side effects are correlated to some biological mechanism that is yet to be explained to me. DHEA (359 ug/dl), Testosterone (600-1000), among other measures all check out. Maybe I simply have a hyper-sensitivity to fertility drugs in general.
What i need help with:
1. Has anyone heard of these side effects with HCG or Clomid before without E2 being elevated?
2. What was the resolution in those cases?
3. Is it possible that I am hypersensitive to HCG and/or Clomid?
4. Does anyone have any suggestions for further inquiry or action I may take?
I am about to turn 26. Male. I have been using Testosterone since I was 18. Long story short, I used anabolics that early because I was competing in BB shows. I grew up in a small town where quite a few males my age and older were using steroids so it was a social norm. Regardless, it was a mistake.
Nevertheless, I got my head on straight about steroid use when I was 22 and visited BCM to begin assessment and subsequent treatment. TT upon entering into treatment (after stopping all anabolic use) was 89 ng/dl, LH .46 (6-19 ref range), FSH.62 (4-10 ref range, SHBG 6 (10-55 ref range), estradial 2 (.5-5.0 ref range). The PCT was for 2 months and consisted of Clomid and HCG under the close supervision of a doctor (I am keeping names confidential) at the BCM. Two months later my TT was 282 ng/dl, SHBG was 14, estradiol was 4. LH and FSH were not retested at this time. Subjectively I felt horrible on this protocol. I chose at this time to begin TRT treatment with Test Cyp weekly injections. This was back in 2014.
Jump forward to 2018. I began using HCG at the beginning of 2017 (January) because I began dating my now fiance and could not sexually 'perform' without HCG. Prior to this initiation of HCG, I avoided its use because of various side effects, yet my testicles perpetually remained atrophied. I decided to stop taking HCG three weeks ago to determine if I felt better. As I suspected, I did. Subsequently, I initiated Clomid therapy, 25mg EOD to see if that helped (I know the arguments against its use with Testosterone and that is not what I need help with).
Clomid and HCG both seem to create similar side effects in me which my doctor cannot explain and I need serious help. Not only do I need to be able to take HCG, Clomid, or both so that I can attempt to have a baby in the next 18 months, I do not feel quite right on just Testosterone alone. I am going to explain how the side effects that I feel and see if anyone could possibly shed some light on what might be happening.
Testosterone Therapy by itself, side effects:
1. Clear-headed (as far as academic learning goes)
2. Edgy
3. Low energy
4. Testicular atrophy
5. Emotional 'disconnected' feeling
6. Able to maintain low 'water weight' and low BF (relatively)
HCG and TRT: (HCG 400 iu 2x/week) (Test cyp .55 every 4 days)
1. Within an hour of taking HCG and lasting for at least 3 days post shot:
a. Extreme head fog
b. memory loss (cannot seem to form new memories, or remember old information which is highly important to me as I am finishing a master's program and will go on to get a PhD- I need my head working right)
c. Water weight- extreme
d. Extreme lethargy/apathy
e. Stomach pain/nausea- extreme
f. Testicles increase in size
g. Sperm volume increases
h. Sexual function greatly enhanced
i. increased body fat
Clomid & TRT:
1. Sexual function greatly enhanced
2. Sperm volume does not increase seemingly
3. Good energy
4. Stomach pain/nausea
5. Water retention
6. Head fog (goes in and out)
7. Memory function decreased (goes in and out)
What have I tried?
1. Anastrozole to determine if it was an E2 issue (however, my labs come back normal on E2 over the past 4 years, always 2 or less on a reference range of 0.5-5.0. Anastrozole .25 mg just once per week crashes my E2 (I get dry joints, brittle hair, dried skin, low energy, etc.)
2. Timing of HCG and dosing (before I quit three weeks ago)
a. I went all the way down to 50 iu twice per week and the same horrible symptoms with HCG such as extreme nausea, bloat, water retention, lethargy, head fog, memory impairment all existed.
b. I tried once per week HCG shots. The latter end of the week when HCG was no longer active my symptoms clear up, only to come about again with the next HCG shot.
3. I just began calcium d-glucarate and DIM yesterday to determine if its an estrogen metabolism issue. I will have to wait and see if those work.
4. Not taking HCG. The aforementioned side effects disappear yet the side effects of TRT only reappear (the good symptom of this is my head is clear finally).
I do not know what to do. Clomid is giving me the same nausea and bloat so I am assuming these side effects are correlated to some biological mechanism that is yet to be explained to me. DHEA (359 ug/dl), Testosterone (600-1000), among other measures all check out. Maybe I simply have a hyper-sensitivity to fertility drugs in general.
What i need help with:
1. Has anyone heard of these side effects with HCG or Clomid before without E2 being elevated?
2. What was the resolution in those cases?
3. Is it possible that I am hypersensitive to HCG and/or Clomid?
4. Does anyone have any suggestions for further inquiry or action I may take?
