Has anyone’s testicles ever NOT recovered? It’s been over 2 years, and mine are still atrophied. They’re still smaller than before. What can I do?

[JCUSN]

2 years ago I came off TRT. For recovery, I took Toremifene at 60mg for 2 weeks, then 30mg for 4 weeks. Leading up to that I took HCG and also HMG. Clomid always messes me up…I did it 8 years ago and it gave me permanent eye floaters that I still have today.

My testicles are still atrophied. Even recent ultrasounds show their volume is considered below average, and they’re absolutely smaller than before. My scrotum is also “tighter.” Semen volume is also drastically reduced, and it’s no longer white at all…it’s clear. Does this indicate anything?

I’ve been trying to recover for 2 years, and still nothing. I’m 40 years old, and I’m in outstanding physical shape. I am going for full bloodwork panel this Tuesday.

I’ve been to a urologist, and they were remarkably UNhelpful and even a bit condescending. It was a horrible experience.

Can anyone help me please?

 

[Bob62]

OK off the cuff reply since i have been in similar situation ,took me over 2 years slightly to recover raisins back to walnuts . Essentially get back on high dose HCG + FSH/HMG . i was on this for 2 years . Near 60 yo with over 10 years Hx TRT unsupported by HCG. It can be done.

 

[JCUSN]

OK off the cuff reply since i have been in similar situation ,took me over 2 years slightly to recover raisins back to walnuts . Essentially get back on high dose HCG + FSH/HMG . i was on this for 2 years . Near 60 yo with over 10 years Hx TRT unsupported by HCG. It can be done.

Thanks for your reply. What was your “high dose” of HCG? How many IU and how many times per week? Were you using Pregnyl from a pharmacy, or some other brand of HCG that’s cheaper?

Also, what HMG dose were you doing? Any other meds at all like an AI or anything?

Also, did you inject your HCG subQ or in the muscle?

 

[Bob62]

i varied the dose /brands many times according to lab results ,caliper measured testicle size , EF,libido,load size etc
Used India Pharma uHCG HMG &uFSH and even more pricey India Pharma rFSH and rHCG . I tracked serum HCG FSH levels to make sure the product was legit. Other markers to track include Inhibin B for Sertoli cell and 17OHP for Leydig cell recovery.Of course Test/Estrogen/PRL/SHBG/TSH
In summary i settled on 5000 IU HCG MWF and 150 IU FSH /HMG alt days . No difference either urine or recombinant derived.
Vigourous Steve would fall off his chair at those doses but they are needed at older age after fried balls on many years TRT in my own experience of 1.
Oh yes i have access to cheaper supply obviously.

 

[JCUSN]

i varied the dose /brands many times according to lab results ,caliper measured testicle size , EF,libido,load size etc
Used India Pharma uHCG HMG &uFSH and even more pricey India Pharma rFSH and rHCG . I tracked serum HCG FSH levels to make sure the product was legit. Other markers to track include Inhibin B for Sertoli cell and 17OHP for Leydig cell recovery.Of course Test/Estrogen/PRL/SHBG/TSH
In summary i settled on 5000 IU HCG MWF and 150 IU FSH /HMG alt days . No difference either urine or recombinant derived.
Vigourous Steve would fall off his chair at those doses but they are needed at older age after fried balls on many years TRT in my own experience of 1.
Oh yes i have access to cheaper supply obviously.

Wow…5000 iu of HCG 3x per week. Wow!
How high did your Test and E2 levels get on that dose?

Your cheaper supply…are you US-based? How did you find this for so cheap? Pregnyl costs almost $300 for a 10k vial here.

 

[Bob62]

Wow…5000 iu of HCG 3x per week. Wow!
How high did your Test and E2 levels get on that dose?

Your cheaper supply…are you US-based? How did you find this for so cheap? Pregnyl costs almost $300 for a 10k vial here.

The test level will just max out according to enzymatic substrate bottle necks , similarly estrogen, test well over Upper normal , estrogen upper normal , test estrogen ratio 20 to1 , estrogen about 5 percent total test, but I was aiming for hypertrophy of the atrophied tissue to get size regrowth. Asia , that stuff is not too expensive. Overall theme is up the dose in incremental every 3 to 6 months till till you max out on all the aforesaid markers, then be patient it's a biology system takes time to regenerate

 

[Wolverine]

The test level will just max out according to enzymatic substrate bottle necks , similarly estrogen, test well over Upper normal , estrogen upper normal , test estrogen ratio 20 to1 , estrogen about 5 percent total test, but I was aiming for hypertrophy of the atrophied tissue to get size regrowth. Asia , that stuff is not too expensive. Overall theme is up the dose in incremental every 3 to 6 months till till you max out on all the aforesaid markers, then be patient it's a biology system takes time to regenerate

Fascinating! Thanks for the information. You are taking TRT and all of that? At 60 years young, is it for fertility purposes or just to get the boys back? My E would be through the roof on TRT and that amount of HCG. Thanks!

 

[madman]

2 years ago I came off TRT. For recovery, I took Toremifene at 60mg for 2 weeks, then 30mg for 4 weeks. Leading up to that I took HCG and also HMG. Clomid always messes me up…I did it 8 years ago and it gave me permanent eye floaters that I still have today.

My testicles are still atrophied. Even recent ultrasounds show their volume is considered below average, and they’re absolutely smaller than before. My scrotum is also “tighter.” Semen volume is also drastically reduced, and it’s no longer white at all…it’s clear. Does this indicate anything?

I’ve been trying to recover for 2 years, and still nothing. I’m 40 years old, and I’m in outstanding physical shape. I am going for full bloodwork panel this Tuesday.

I’ve been to a urologist, and they were remarkably UNhelpful and even a bit condescending. It was a horrible experience.

Can anyone help me please?

Need a full-set of labs including LH/FSH!

You will always go back to baseline after using exogenous T.

For all we know your FT is still sub-par/low.

Would not be to optimistic if I was in my 40s.

​

 

[Bob62]

Fascinating! Thanks for the information. You are taking TRT and all of that? At 60 years young, is it for fertility purposes or just to get the boys back? My E would be through the roof on TRT and that amount of HCG. Thanks!

Test cream , not for fertility though I used basically a modified fertility protocol and reason for sexual and overall health which worked very well.

 

[madman]

OK off the cuff reply since i have been in similar situation ,took me over 2 years slightly to recover raisins back to walnuts . Essentially get back on high dose HCG + FSH/HMG . i was on this for 2 years . Near 60 yo with over 10 years Hx TRT unsupported by HCG. It can be done.

High dose hCG would be the go to and even then it would be more effective in the long-run to use hCG + FSH or hCG + hMG!

hCG + FSH is where it's at!

ASIH & Regaining Fertility

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Has anyone had success in restoring fertility with FSH?

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Does HCG suppress to the same extent as exogenous testosterone? I want to take HCG for fertility reasons, but when I come off, will have low T levels?

I am in the same journey. I have very low sperm count(4 million). I quit test cream and planning to start clomid 50mg per day plus HCG for 2 weeks and then decrease the dosage to 25 per day. HCG i am thinking to 500iu per day. I am primary hypogonadism candidate.

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Clomiphene and Enclomiphene

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HCG restart attempt.

I've been on HCG from June 15, for an attempt to restart my own testosterone production. My trt doctor prescribed a huge amount of 5000iu 2x week. I did that first, and then spared it out to 2500iu EOD after few weeks, because of the huge 5000iu dose at once seemed to give me elevated heart rate...

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[Cataceous]

The test level will just max out according to enzymatic substrate bottle necks , ...

It's worse than this. This work demonstrates that testosterone production follows an inverted "U" curve as a function of hCG dose; testosterone decreases when hCG gets too high.

 

[Lance69]

2 years ago I came off TRT. For recovery, I took Toremifene at 60mg for 2 weeks, then 30mg for 4 weeks. Leading up to that I took HCG and also HMG. Clomid always messes me up…I did it 8 years ago and it gave me permanent eye floaters that I still have today.

My testicles are still atrophied. Even recent ultrasounds show their volume is considered below average, and they’re absolutely smaller than before. My scrotum is also “tighter.” Semen volume is also drastically reduced, and it’s no longer white at all…it’s clear. Does this indicate anything?

I’ve been trying to recover for 2 years, and still nothing. I’m 40 years old, and I’m in outstanding physical shape. I am going for full bloodwork panel this Tuesday.

I’ve been to a urologist, and they were remarkably UNhelpful and even a bit condescending. It was a horrible experience.

Can anyone help me please?

Have you tried a course of HCG? I use HCG on day 1 and 2 and my T cyp shot on day 3 and my nuts are bigger than ever. Like coconuts.
Well, not quite that big, but pretty big!

Why did you stop T? Maybe you can go on the Crisler protocol and see what happens.

 

[Wolverine]

Have you tried a course of HCG? I use HCG on day 1 and 2 and my T cyp shot on day 3 and my nuts are bigger than ever. Like coconuts.
Well, not quite that big, but pretty big!

Why did you stop T? Maybe you can go on the Crisler protocol and see what happens.

What is your protocol/dosages? Nothing on days 4,5,6 and 7?

 

[Wolverine]

It's worse than this. This work demonstrates that testosterone production follows an inverted "U" curve as a function of hCG dose; testosterone decreases when hCG gets too high.

Thanks Cat: This work states that "at an rhCG concentration of more than about 30 IU/liter, the production rate decreases." In layman's terms, what is 30IU/liter? Many here take 250ius etc. Thanks!

 

[Lance69]

I do 250units HGCG on day 1 and 2 and .6cc Test cyp on day 3. Seems to work fine for me. Been on that for yrs.

 

[Cataceous]

Thanks Cat: This work states that "at an rhCG concentration of more than about 30 IU/liter, the production rate decreases." In layman's terms, what is 30IU/liter? Many here take 250ius etc. Thanks!

I assume 30 IU/liter refers to the concentration in blood. But you can refer to Figure 5 for the predicted results for various dosing protocols. For example, with every-other-day administration 1,000 IU yields greater testosterone production than 500 or 2,500 IU. The absolute numbers are probably not very precise, but the general pattern should hold for most individuals, with production declining at higher doses of hCG.

 

[BigBeard411]

Very sorry to hear this brother. It is always possible recovery doesn't occur after atrophy, which typically takes about 2 years of shut down. It is one of the main reasons why I can't go on TRT even though my test is low.

It may just be taking longer for you to recover. You should follow certain markers to see if they are improving to suggest activity in testes.

 

[Lance69]

Stopping T can cause of myriad a myriad of issues health wise. I stopped a few years ago, lost 10 lbs and got Peyronies disease. My member shrunk and got hour glass shaped! It was awful and happened quickly. Once I went back on T my member returned to normal size and shape. It was amazing to see how quickly that happened.

I'm starting to wonder if low T causes Peyronies. A friend of mine does not take T and has it really bad. He says his johnson looks like a tiny hour glass now as he ages. I told him to try T and he refuses to try it. Oh well. His schlong.

 

[JCUSN]

Need a full-set of labs including LH/FSH!

You will always go back to baseline after using exogenous T.

For all we know your FT is still sub-par/low.

Would not be to optimistic if I was in my 40s.

​

Just got lab results back from Quest.

Total T: 550 (250-827 ng/dL)
Free T: 53 (46-224 pg/mL)
FSH: 4.3 (1.4 - 12.8 mIU/mL)
LH: 3.2 (1.5 - 9.3 mIU/mL)
Estradiol ultra sensitive: 20
PSA: 1.07
DHT: 43 (12-65 ng/dL)

 

[JCUSN]

Just got lab results back from Quest.

Total T: 550 (250-827 ng/dL)
Free T: 53 (46-224 pg/mL)
FSH: 4.3 (1.4 - 12.8 mIU/mL)
LH: 3.2 (1.5 - 9.3 mIU/mL)
Estradiol ultra sensitive: 20
PSA: 1.07
DHT: 43 (12-65 ng/dL)

Do these look concerning or look like I didn’t recover somewhere? @madman