Going to give No HCG a go.

[Cataceous]

"...progesterone opposes DHT, and HCG increases progesterone."

Do you a link you can post to a study demonstrating this? Not trying to be a douche, just wanting to read for myself.

Regarding hCG and progesterone, not long ago someone linked to a study showing that hCG increases progesterone in younger men but not older men. Personally, hCG did not raise my progesterone from the bottom of the reference range.

 

[Cataceous]

"...progesterone opposes DHT, and HCG increases progesterone."

Do you a link you can post to a study demonstrating this? Not trying to be a douche, just wanting to read for myself.

Found it: The aging Leydig cell: VI. Response of testosterone precursors to gonadotrophin in men. - PubMed - NCBI

The effects of a single im injection of human chorionic gonadotrophin (hCG) on circulating testosterone precursor levels at 0, 1-6, 24, 48 and 72 h were examined in normal young adult (mean age 34 years) and normal aged men (mean age 74 years) Basal 08.30- 09.00 h concentrations of androstenedione and dehydroepiandrosterone were lower in aged men while progesterone levels were not significantly different from young men. A significant biphasic increase of circulating progesterone was observed in young men, characterized by an early peak at 2 h (33% above basal) and a secondary peak at 24 h (49% above basal). In old men there were no increases in circulating progesterone levels following hCG treatment during the early (1-6 h) or late (24-72 h) periods.​

 

[Cataceous]

Regarding progesterone and DHT, progesterone is a 5α-reductase inhibitor.

One study confirmed progesterone is a 5alpha-reductase inhibitor but topical application is ineffective in men because of rapid metabolization. [R. Hoffman 2000][1]​

​

Another underlying reference cited:

At the tested concentrations, finasteride was found to be a major inhibitor of dihydrotestosterone (DHT) formation. Even 1 nM finasteride inhibited DHT synthesis in DP by 86% and 1 nM progesterone by 75%.[2]​

 

[DixieWrecked]

@Cataceous and @Gman86 thanks guys! I have been off of hCG for about 2 weeks now and I have to admit that I look much harder. No question about it. I have lost some water but my weight has only dropped about a pound. I am happy about that so far.

 

[johnnybones]

Sitting at week 4 since discontinuing. The water weight loss stabilized at around 10lbs. Much less bloated and all my bacne is gone. Other than that I feel the same, which is pretty good.....libido good, workouts good, no ED, no atrophy pain or size loss. I will have labs done around the 20th of Feb and evaluate further.

In a similar boat as you, except fatigue and libido have never really been good on TRT. Had my last shot of HCG on sunday, going to see how I feel without it for the next two months. It's been in my protocol since the very beginning almost three years ago. One question, are you using an AI now or just testosterone?

 

[Pringle]

No AI. Just Test CYP.

 

[johnnybones]

No AI. Just Test CYP.

Awesome. Im on 16mg Test C a day, no AI as well. Interested to see what dropping HCG feels like as I have never been without it. I know I am a hyper responder since the normal doses people take here sent my e2 spiraling upwards of 70 on the sensitive test and gave me some of the most intense anxiety and emotional craziness I have ever experienced.

 

[antelopers]

So I have been off the hCG for a little over a week and I have noticed something. My skin is more oily. Does anyone know why this would be? I associate androgens with oily skin. Does hCG or the Estrogen it causes occupy the androgen receptor? I

Hey just a note this happens to me as well. With HCG my skin is normal but without it, I have oily skin. No acne, just oil. I am not sure why either but I always assumed it was related to the dht to estrogen ratio.

 

[DixieWrecked]

Well, I know this thread is now old. But I have been going with just the Test for awhile and I just feel flat. Like I don't have a zest for life. I think I am going to try a dose of hCG, 200iu eod. I hope it wakes up my spirits a little bit

 

[Cataceous]

Well, I know this thread is now old. But I have been going with just the Test for awhile and I just feel flat. Like I don't have a zest for life. I think I am going to try a dose of hCG, 200iu eod. I hope it wakes up my spirits a little bit

I felt the same way during the two periods I was not using hCG with TRT. That's in addition to having testicular atrophy, reduced ejaculate volume and inferior orgasm quality.

 

[Pringle]

I felt the same way during the two periods I was not using hCG with TRT. That's in addition to having testicular atrophy, reduced ejaculate volume and inferior orgasm quality.

I wish it was all cookie cutter for each of us. I am still doing no HCG and feel good. I have noticed a slight size loss with the boys....nothing major and no atrophy pain. I have experienced no difference in orgasm quality and my volume is the same so far, after a few months. My E2 settled in at 32 on last labs....no AI, no bacne, or water retention are my positives. HCG never gave me the “feel good” or boost some others seem to experience and my libido was strong prior to starting it. I just added to my T dose to compensate for the loss of T by eliminating HCG....I am going to stay the course and evaluate further.

 

[DS3]

I felt the same way during the two periods I was not using hCG with TRT. That's in addition to having testicular atrophy, reduced ejaculate volume and inferior orgasm quality.

Same feeling I get without HCG. Emotional flatness, no energy or zest, lacking in something that HCG provides.

 

[DixieWrecked]

Thank you both for your replies. I am happy for you Pringle. I gave it a fair shot and I actually like the way I look better without the hCG, dryer. Hopefully I can figure this out sooner or later.

 

[Vince]

POLL about add hcg

www.excelmale.com

 

[johnnybones]

I am going on 55 days without HCG. I've had some interesting changes. Libido has improved, as well as erection quality. I am by no means the horny person I used to be, but overall my sex drive is probably 20% higher, which is amazing. It was really high for like a week, but as it usually does that went away. I have also had a weird side effect with acne. My back is good, but my forehead literally exploded with it. I mean I felt like I was in high school again going through puberty. Not really sure what to make of that. I have since got it under control with a more strict cleansing protocol.

Other than dropping HCG the only changes I have made are the implementation of digestive enzymes and betaine HCL with meals. They have been absolute godsends for digestion, and for the first time in years my bowel movements are perfect, and energy levels are steadily rising. I'll have bloodwork back soon and update.

 

[antelopers]

I am going on 55 days without HCG. I've had some interesting changes. Libido has improved, as well as erection quality. I am by no means the horny person I used to be, but overall my sex drive is probably 20% higher, which is amazing. It was really high for like a week, but as it usually does that went away. I have also had a weird side effect with acne. My back is good, but my forehead literally exploded with it. I mean I felt like I was in high school again going through puberty. Not really sure what to make of that. I have since got it under control with a more strict cleansing protocol.

Other than dropping HCG the only changes I have made are the implementation of digestive enzymes and betaine HCL with meals. They have been absolute godsends for digestion, and for the first time in years my bowel movements are perfect, and energy levels are steadily rising. I'll have bloodwork back soon and update.

Digestive health is huge! Glad you're feeling better. I found I was able to reduce and drop the hcl completely after a while.