Estradiol valerate experiment .

[Omi7276]

Day 5 on BC pill
Improvements
Vision is clear than ever
Joints feel so good . It's as if my knees have grown back .
Lethargy has gone down, but not vanished
Scalp is less dry
EQ is better but far from good.
Anxiety is down drastically.

On another note
I had a word with a gynecologist who consults post menopausal women about HRT. According to her , natural micronized estrogen and natural micronized progesterone looks good only on paper but women don't respond well to it . For some reason , even she recommends women to use synthetic estrogen n progestin along with micro doses of androgens.
Personally have tried natural progesterone and it just makes me feel sedated and does nothing good for my symptoms. But the Levonorgestrel is doing a decent job in just 5 days . You can feel almost every textbook benefit of progesterone with levonorgestrel. My anxiety has almost vanished and sleep has improved . I also feel it has somehow made my hair less coarse .

Gonna stick with current protocol for another 7-10 days

 

[Mastodont]

And what else were you running at the same time, still 3000iu hcg and how much t?

 

[Omi7276]

And what else were you running at the same time, still 3000iu hcg and how much t?

100 mg Test e split twice a week
1000 iu HCG EOD

 

[Phil Goodman]

100 mg Test e split twice a week
1000 iu HCG EOD

If all of your protocols have failed to yield the results you seek(see quote below)

I have deliberately not included FreeT, TotalT , DHT , because I have tried and titrated all combinations to no help and want to keep other variables limited.

Is there any reason you decided to stay at such a high dose? If even just for the monetary reasons alone, it seems it would be preferable to have unwanted sides at 120 mg/week instead of having unwanted sides at 200 mg/week.

Also, what “other variables” are you attempting to limit? Based on your posts it appears you are frequently adding and/or changing things so the variables don’t seem very limited.

 

[Omi7276]

If all of your protocols have failed to yield the results you seek(see quote below)



Is there any reason you decided to stay at such a high dose? If even just for the monetary reasons alone, it seems it would be preferable to have unwanted sides at 120 mg/week instead of having unwanted sides at 200 mg/week.

Also, what “other variables” are you attempting to limit? Based on your posts it appears you are frequently adding and/or changing things so the variables don’t seem very limited.

When one comes across side effects ( like migraine) , he's ought to modify if not for better.
Now bad protocols ( one which are invasive ) are difficult to adhere to, and are destined to fail ( even if it somehow works) . So finding a sustainable solution is also amongst priorities.
My standard dose of trt was preferably 70 mg per week . I just took 200 mg for approx 3 months to check if it somehow aromatizes at higher dosages ( saw some guys on trt channel pushing for higher dose to get more aromatization). Didn't work.
Although I was tempted to keep it 200 mg while running synthetic oestrogen and progesterone , but the doses are too small.

But someone should definitely look into the literature surrounding mystery of how n why progestins are getting job done better than natural micronized progesterone! @Cataceous

 

[Phil Goodman]

When one comes across side effects ( like migraine) , he's ought to modify if not for better.
Now bad protocols ( one which are invasive ) are difficult to adhere to, and are destined to fail ( even if it somehow works) . So finding a sustainable solution is also amongst priorities.
My standard dose of trt was preferably 70 mg per week . I just took 200 mg for approx 3 months to check if it somehow aromatizes at higher dosages ( saw some guys on trt channel pushing for higher dose to get more aromatization). Didn't work.
Although I was tempted to keep it 200 mg while running synthetic oestrogen and progesterone , but the doses are too small.

But someone should definitely look into the literature surrounding mystery of how n why progestins are getting job done better than natural micronized progesterone! @Cataceous

Why are you trying to aromatize more? You assumed your issues were from E2 because the symptoms were similar or the same, but you had high E2 levels. Adding E2 made them worse. And you already acknowledge that you have very low progesterone levels so why not focus there instead of running very high doses of test and HCG(not saying those doses can’t work for some people…perhaps even you, but we at least know in your current state they aren’t working for you), adding in E2 to your protocol, adding caber to your protocol, and whatever you see next week that you decide to add to your protocol? Also, you say your extremely high HCG doses were to test and see if there’s a dose dependent increase in progesterone. Two things…1.) there wasn’t, so why are you still running those levels? 2.) you can’t have “parallel experiments” in a single subject. All of the substances are having an impact so you aren’t accurately measuring things independently. In other words, you can’t ramp up your HCG dose and add in 5 other things at the same time while saying the HCG dose is a “parallel experiment”. There is only one experiment, and it involves everything you’re taking.

Again, it seems you would likely be better off with addition by subtraction at this point…or at least focusing on finding stability while getting your progesterone numbers up.

 

[Cataceous]

... But someone should definitely look into the literature surrounding mystery of how n why progestins are getting job done better than natural micronized progesterone! @Cataceous

Oral progesterone is decidedly unnatural. You get a large cascade of metabolites. Your premise doesn't hold for injections, but progesterone has a relatively short half-life, so you need to use it daily. Transdermal is probably ok too, but dosing is less precise and there are reports of unusual saliva concentrations.

 

[brookseth]

I'm wondering if maybe your results have more to do with Progesterone rather than Estrogen.
Because your estrogen was already kinda elevated - making me not understand why running even HIGHER e2 levels would be beneficial. And taking just e2 you were not seeing good results, however now taking progesterone through BC youre feeling better.
Maybe the better move would be taking JUST progesterone. Or heck even taking some Nandrolone possible as it is pro-progestin (correct me if im wrong).

 

[Omi7276]

Oral progesterone is decidedly unnatural. You get a large cascade of metabolites. Your premise doesn't hold for injections, but progesterone has a relatively short half-life, so you need to use it daily. Transdermal is probably ok too, but dosing is less precise and there are reports of unusual saliva concentrations.

I have used transdermal as well but never got anything . It's only woth a synthetic progesterone that I have noticed textbook benefits of progesterone. Also experienced a boost in cortisol ( my knees and most joints forgot to ache just after 3-4 doses of BC pills)
Also my urine stream has more flow to it (maybe indicates something to do with prostate) .

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Also experienced a boost in cortisol ( my knees and most joints forgot to ache just after 3-4 doses of BC pills)

This is a sloppy conclusion. It's fine to report that your knees stopped aching after 3-4 BC pills. It's not fine to confidently state the mechanism was boosted cortisol, unless you measured that, which you didn't. Actually, even if you had documented elevated cortisol, you still wouldn't know for sure if that was the reason the knees stopped hurting.

 

[Zibernet]

Saturday April 20, 2024

Low SHBG Male ( 15-20)
Currently on 200 mg test e (split 2 times a week)
HCG 500 iu EOD
Typical low estradiol symptoms like joint pain, dry skin, ED etc despite E2 in the range
E2 ( non sensitive ) - 45 pg/ml (above range)
Free T and DHT run above range
I have deliberately not included FreeT, TotalT , DHT , because I have tried and titrated all combinations to no help and want to keep other variables limited.
( I might post it later )

So, I will be introducing E2 valerate just to see its effect on my SHBG and symptoms.
After some valuable consulting , My new protocol would be
50 mg test e per week taken once a week ( testoviron depot by Zydus Cadila ) shallow IM
1000 iu HCG ( EUTRIG HP from Samarth life sciences) three times a week .
Estradiol valerate tablet 1 mg everyday ( progynova from Bayer Zydus ) taken once daily in morning .


Tagging @Cataceous for my own guidance.. please feel free to suggest any tweaks or tests .

Too bad, I wish every story would happily end like this one :

Estrodiol Gel Success

I have tried numerous things and it always seems like testosterone did nothing. I started researching and finding out that Estrogen is a major player in sex drive. I had try a low dose of estrogen valerate which seemed to help improve my mood but I also tried Estradiol Gel and it has made the...

forum.propeciahelp.com

 

[Omi7276]

Almost 2 weeks on combination bc pill and my shbg has increased from 15, to 22.8.
On 100 mg test e a week
My total test , free test is in upper normal range[trough values( wont be posting exact values for my own good )], which were out of range earlier.
My dht is mid range (maybe progestin reduced or countered it ) , which used to be above the range before.

Symptom resolution
1) Appetite is so well regulated. I have less cravings ,more self control, no impulsive urges.
2) Skin is better than before . Earlier I need to use a moisturizer, multiple times a day . Now just once a day
3) Hair has improved as well. Had frizzy hair all the time. Now they seem to be gaining lusture and my scalp is less dry as well.
4) Joints are like teenager
5) Vision is HD . Sleep is way better. Although, I still feel a bit hyperventilated
6) Muscles are full as if I just pumped some iron
7) vocal cords are improving and I can scream for an extended amount of time.
8) Libido great .EQ is better but not 100%
9) Feel more positive overall as in approach towards life in general

One thing makes me wonder is 100 mg test e a week and 1000 iu hcg 3x week , should theoretically put me in supraphysiological range(esp dht) . But that's not the case . I wonder if the progestin from bc pill is pulling down alpha reductase and levelling the hyperandrogenic state ( same treatment for women woth PCOS)
@Cataceous What's your take on any changes to be made ( I know you like to invest min 4-6 weeks) , but since I felt great just within 2 weeks , was wondering I should stay on BC pills for another 2 weeks to check if it further increases shbg or
Should I increase T and see if it crushes SHBG again while being on bc pill ?

 

[FunkOdyssey]

7) vocal cords are improving and I can scream for an extended amount of time.

You've heard it here first boys: birth control pills = scream gains!

If you felt like TRT resolved your hypogonadal symptoms, but something loud and high-pitched was still missing, here you go. Unlock your genetic scream potential and fulfill your lifelong dream to be a horror film extra.

 

[Phil Goodman]

You've heard it here first boys: birth control pills = scream gains!

If you felt like TRT resolved your hypogonadal symptoms, but something loud and high-pitched was still missing, here you go. Unlock your genetic scream potential and fulfill your lifelong dream to be a horror film extra.

So THAT’s how Slipknot and all the others do it!

 

[Mastodont]

Kind of makes you want to source some BC pills, who knows if after all the holy grail is test+Birth control, no other add ons.

 

[Bob62]

No . It's a parallel experiment to check HCG dose dependent rise in 17 OH progesterone .

I track my serum HCG levels along with serum 17ohp and yes it's broadly dose dependent , up to a certain maximal HCG dose . I am talking about TRT suppressed testicles. You can find your maximal useful HCG dose like this

 

[Omi7276]

I track my serum HCG levels along with serum 17ohp and yes it's broadly dose dependent , up to a certain maximal HCG dose . I am talking about TRT suppressed testicles. You can find your maximal useful HCG dose like this

Agreed. So some anecdotes have prompted to increase HCG dose until your 17 OH progesterone is almost near upper range . This has helped people who have low progesterone ( almost undetectable) to bring up progesterone. For me , @1000 IU HCG EOD , my 17 oh progesterone is just mid range . I am bit concerned about raising it to 2000 iu EOD because of thyroid growth . 500 iu HCG EOD doesn't do a thing for me on lab numbers. My case might be specific since I am long time AAS/TRT user( 12 years) .

 

[Bob62]

Ok I am over 10 years TRT cream , had shur down dead ball's as a result as HCG wasn't a thing back in the days , so I went from just under lower RR 17ohp to just over mid range 17ihp over 2 years. Basically a total of 10000 units total weekly for me, no evidence thyroid problems, or any downregulation lh complex

 

[Omi7276]

Ok I am over 10 years TRT cream , had shur down dead ball's as a result as HCG wasn't a thing back in the days , so I went from just under lower RR 17ohp to just over mid range 17ihp over 2 years. Basically a total of 10000 units total weekly for me, no evidence thyroid problems, or any downregulation lh complex

Ok I am over 10 years TRT cream , had shur down dead ball's as a result as HCG wasn't a thing back in the days , so I went from just under lower RR 17ohp to just over mid range 17ihp over 2 years. Basically a total of 10000 units total weekly for me, no evidence thyroid problems, or any downregulation lh complex

Did your TSH, FREE T4 OR FREE T3 changed?

 

[Bob62]

Did your TSH, FREE T4 OR FREE T3 changed?

Not a bit