Estradiol valerate experiment .

[Omi7276]

Saturday April 20, 2024

Low SHBG Male ( 15-20)
Currently on 200 mg test e (split 2 times a week)
HCG 500 iu EOD
Typical low estradiol symptoms like joint pain, dry skin, ED etc despite E2 in the range
E2 ( non sensitive ) - 45 pg/ml (above range)
Free T and DHT run above range
I have deliberately not included FreeT, TotalT , DHT , because I have tried and titrated all combinations to no help and want to keep other variables limited.
( I might post it later )

So, I will be introducing E2 valerate just to see its effect on my SHBG and symptoms.
After some valuable consulting , My new protocol would be
50 mg test e per week taken once a week ( testoviron depot by Zydus Cadila ) shallow IM
1000 iu HCG ( EUTRIG HP from Samarth life sciences) three times a week .
Estradiol valerate tablet 1 mg everyday ( progynova from Bayer Zydus ) taken once daily in morning .


Tagging @Cataceous for my own guidance.. please feel free to suggest any tweaks or tests .

 

[Cataceous]

I suggest dividing the testosterone enanthate into at least 2-3 doses per week. With weekly doses, 50 mg is likely to send serum testosterone quite low at the end of each injection cycle. This and the transition from a very high dose would make for a pretty rocky road. An alternative is 50 mg TE twice a week, which would be a good intermediate step before experimenting with lower doses. Be aware that it can take weeks to months for the effects of a dramatic protocol change to be fully felt.

 

[Omi7276]

I suggest dividing the testosterone enanthate into at least 2-3 doses per week. With weekly doses, 50 mg is likely to send serum testosterone quite low at the end of each injection cycle. This and the transition from a very high dose would make for a pretty rocky road. An alternative is 50 mg TE twice a week, which would be a good intermediate step before experimenting with lower doses. Be aware that it can take weeks to months for the effects of a dramatic protocol change to be fully felt.

I will incorporate 50 mg twice a week initially.

Day 3 of e2V . Observation
Intermittent headaces
Significant appetite supression. Strong repulsion for sweets
Feeling a bit hyperventilated
Subtle ease in neck and shoulder stiffness.

 

[Omi7276]

On a different note, I have read about the post regarding half life/ elimination life of HCG being different for doses (article compared 250 iu and 500 iu , I suppose) and that 500 iu had greater half life than 250 iu hcg.
If we were to stretch this theory, is it possible that 1000iu hcg will have even greater half life ?
@Cataceous

 

[Omi7276]

So I spoke to a woman (post menopausal) and she was on e2 replacement. She said headache happens when her e2 is high.
Taking clues, I got my blood tested (trough values)
For
Estradiol ( ECLIA)
Prolactin ( since it is a proxy for high estrogen as I read on forum)
Total testosterone

Results
ESTRADIOL (ECLIA) - 81.6 pg/ml ( <52)
Prolactin (CLIA) - 31.6 ng/ml(2.1-17.7)
Total Testosterone - 897 ng/dl (249-1080)

My prolactin was pretty much around 10 ng/ml before strating this trial ( with e2 around 30). So I think some sorcery happened between my e2 levels of 30 to 85 . @Cataceous , is it right to assume that the headache was from elevated prolactin ?
( The estradiol valetarate tablet has a contraindication for people with history of migraines. Also people with migraine seem to have high level of prolactin. I don't have any history of migraine, so chances are that the headache is due to combined spike in e2 and prolactin )

I can't tell if I am lactating since I got my breast tissue removed 6-8 years ago , but my nipples did feel itchy , but just the nipple body and nothing around areola. I did notice my hair falling for last two days ( prolactin is related to hair loss).


Moment the labs got in my hand , I took 0.25 mg caber.
My Total testosterone has always been low (around 400) . So the E2v definitely seems to have increased SHBG, hence increasing total T( but is that possible in just 3 days of e2V dosing) . I will be getting SHBG test done after two more weeks , since I have changed my trt dose from 200mg per week to 100 mg per week .
Symptoms wise, I took caber last night and slept. By the next morning, as I post, headache is gone . Although, symptoms wise , there is no improvement.
Attached reports just for the record.

April 23
- I am going to reduce e2 valerate to 0.5 mg every other day for a while .

 

[brookseth]

How are you getting lab results same day? That's pretty awesome and great for this type of experimentation.

 

[Omi7276]

How are you getting lab results same day? That's pretty awesome and great for this type of experimentation.

It's faster in my country.

 

[Omi7276]

So one week on 0.5 mg eod estardiol valerate tablet, my SHBG didn't even blink .
Headaches have become daily part of life .
Skin got dried out even further
Joint pain increased
Hair fall increased .

 

[Omi7276]

I think I am doing something wrong here .
Either I am taking too low of estradiol valerate or missing out on something.
Thinking of trying combination birth control pills (ethinyl estradiol + levonorgestrel) for a week or so .
I will post reports accordingly.

 

[Gman86]

So one week on 0.5 mg eod estardiol valerate tablet, my SHBG didn't even blink .
Headaches have become daily part of life .
Skin got dried out even further
Joint pain increased
Hair fall increased .

Are u absolutely sure raising ur estrogen is what u need in or to feel optimal?

It’s so weird that taking E2 gave u what looks like on paper low E2 symptoms. Don’t get how increasing E2 could dry out the skin. Joint pain has been reported in some guys using HGH, due to the water retention, but it’s not super common. HGH usually helps joints, from my understanding. And the hair fall could be due to E2 increasing, thus prolactin increasing, since E2 is the main stimulator of prolactin production, in males. And it’s well known that prolactin can negatively affect hair loss

 

[Cataceous]

So one week on 0.5 mg eod estardiol valerate tablet, my SHBG didn't even blink .
...

I suggest waiting at least 1-2 months to see if there's movement in SHBG. The key thing is to get those androgens down and wait. Assuming you don't have a genetic predisposition to low SHBG, it probably took months to suppress yours to that degree, so expect the recovery to also take time. In the past I inadvertently drove my SHBG down into the single digits, but it did eventually return to the 30s-40s nMol/L. I see that it took three months or less to raise it from 9 to 27.

 

[Omi7276]

@Gman86 @Cataceous

So taking estrogen pill wasn't my original idea . I saw it on another forum (not sure if I am allowed to post links from another website) and a renowned youtuber also suggested it as well.

So I found out why I was getting low estrogen symptoms even after taking estradiol valerate. For people with low natural progesterone , solo estradiol valerate won't help . It has to be accompanied by a progestin . I have almost undetectable progesterone levels . ( I know progestin is different from natural progesterone)

So this youtuber/fitness coach says to take combination contraceptive pills which have ethinyl estradiol ( raises SHBG way faster than e2V) .

Started with combination contraceptive pill yday ( Ovral L by Pfizer which has 30 mcg ethinyl estradiol and 150 mcg Levonorgestrel) . Now , this could be a placebo, but I am definitely feeling better than estradiol valerate alone. Also sleeping easily without any stress. It has drastically suppressed my appetite ( read some co relation about estradiol enhancing leptin ) I also got a cortisol boost like effect ( anyone who has taken dexamethasone 1 mg can relate). Brain fog gone almost within hours of taking . Vision has gone from 480p to HD . Biggest perk is that I don't get headaches from this , so adherence has become easy. According to the youtuber, it should raise SHBG in a week or two for most . Hence testing weekly just to know how long it actually takes (just for experiment and curiosity purpose)



PS - I know one shouldn't get swayed by youtubers
and jump on to random drugs, but nothing in the past has worked . So giving it a try .

 

[Phil Goodman]

Are you trying to have kids at the moment? If not, is there any particular reason you’re taking 3,000 ius of HCG/week. That’s the biggest thing that jumps out to me initially so it seems like a good place to start with regard to adjustments.

 

[Omi7276]

Are you trying to have kids at the moment? If not, is there any particular reason you’re taking 3,000 ius of HCG/week. That’s the biggest thing that jumps out to me initially so it seems like a good place to start with regard to adjustments.

No . It's a parallel experiment to check HCG dose dependent rise in 17 OH progesterone .

 

[Phil Goodman]

No . It's a parallel experiment to check HCG dose dependent rise in 17 OH progesterone .

Is your goal experimentation or to feel great?

 

[Omi7276]

In the quest for better, I am just collecting data

 

[Phil Goodman]

In the quest for better, I am just collecting data

Well then id say you aren’t doing a very good job of either one(no offense). In about 10 days time you’ve cut your testosterone dose by 50%, increased your HCG dose by about 33%, added estradiol supplmentation(despite already having really high E2 levels), added caber, decreased initial estradiol dose by 50%, and started taking birth control pills.


Even if you do start to feel better it won’t last because there are too many moving parts at the moment, and you won’t know which one did what.

Even if you get data there’s no way to know which aspect is doing what.


Like cataceous said, you need to spend 1-2 months on a steady protocol and then evaluate how you feel/get labs. And at this point I’d say you’ll probably be better going with addition by subtraction because you need to remove things instead of being tempted to add something new all the time.

 

[Omi7276]

Well then id say you aren’t doing a very good job of either one(no offense). In about 10 days time you’ve cut your testosterone dose by 50%, increased your HCG dose by about 33%, added estradiol supplmentation(despite already having really high E2 levels), added caber, decreased initial estradiol dose by 50%, and started taking birth control pills.


Even if you do start to feel better it won’t last because there are too many moving parts at the moment, and you won’t know which one did what.

Even if you get data there’s no way to know which aspect is doing what.


Like cataceous said, you need to spend 1-2 months on a steady protocol and then evaluate how you feel/get labs. And at this point I’d say you’ll probably be better going with addition by subtraction because you need to remove things instead of being tempted to add something new all the time.

Appreciate your feedback

 

[Mastodont]

Curious how you got prescribed birth control pills...

 

[Omi7276]

No prescription in my country all along . Literally our version of "war on drugs"