Estradiol Obsession

[Nelson Vergel]

Hi Phil


Hey guys, Phil is one of the pioneers online. I followed his yahoo group in the early 2000's. Treat him well.

Phil, my guess is that you have very high inflammation (CRP) which makes the regular E2 test show high values. This test cannot tell the difference between CRP and E2.

Your sensitive estradiol is too low. I would completely stop all AI's (Yes, I am serious). The study that showed that guys with higher estradiol died faster included men with low testosterone and used the old E2 test. Since then we have found that E2 is protective as long as your T is not low. It actually improves lipids and insulin sensitivity. I have a bunch of posts, a handout and videos here:

Role of Estradiol in Men and Its Management

I am sorry you are in such pain. Low E2 can also cause joint pains and tendon issues.

Are you on opiates? What is your TRT protocol? Do you use HCG?

Dr Forest Tennant uses HCG for pain reduction. Read the attached report.

 

[pmgamer18]

Nelson thanks for the reply,



My CRP is 2.1 range 0 to 4.9 mg/L TT is 795. I do a 3.5 mg. shot E3D subQ in my belly fat.



I don't take pain meds they don't work very well so why take them. I do 250 IU's of HCG E3D doing it the day before my T shot.



I just started some Hemp Oil to see is it helps with my pain to soon to tell I posted info about today.

Phil

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Have you ever tried to let go of AIs?

 

[pmgamer18]

Have you ever tried to let go of AIs?

Yes I have had to stop Arimidex going by reg. womens E2 test. But in 3 days my E2 rebounded on me big time. I got a bad rash on the back of my lower legs and started having panic problems.



As for wood when I am to low or to high I don't have rem sleep wood. I seen you post a lot about E2 and wood not having been tested. Yet I lost count on how many men I told about this. And they showed high on E2 and taking even Zinc or an AL got there sex life back.

I have been off Aromasin 3 days now no problems yet I read it could take a few weeks to start coming back up.

I pray my pain lowers for all I know I have been low a good yr. Old labs show my good on the reg. E2 tests it started showing high about 10 months ago.
Phil

 

[pmgamer18]

Hi All,



After being off Aromasin for a time yesterday I was sweating off and on this made me think my E2 is coming up. That day I had my HCG shot but today so far I am fine.

Phil aka pmgamer18

 

[pmgamer18]

Just an update,



Last week I felt sore and hard nipples was sweating a lot with feelings of panic. I tried to hold off going back on my Aromasin but each day was getting bad. And no rem sleep wood.



So I went back on Aromasin one half a pill that did not do a thing. So I took the whole pill and in about 3 hrs. I started feeling better. So my thinking was E2 went back up yet after 3 days. I started feeling bad again so I am back on the med E2 to 3 days and doing very good. A lot of the pain I suffer is a lot less so after taking 4 pills / day I am down to one pill E3D.



Hope this keeps up.
Phil aka pmgamer18

 

[seb288]

Just an update,



Last week I felt sore and hard nipples was sweating a lot with feelings of panic. I tried to hold off going back on my Aromasin but each day was getting bad. And no rem sleep wood.



So I went back on Aromasin one half a pill that did not do a thing. So I took the whole pill and in about 3 hrs. I started feeling better. So my thinking was E2 went back up yet after 3 days. I started feeling bad again so I am back on the med E2 to 3 days and doing very good. A lot of the pain I suffer is a lot less so after taking 4 pills / day I am down to one pill E3D.



Hope this keeps up.
Phil aka pmgamer18

I'm amazed that you need so much aromasin - must be expensive. Have you tried letrozole? Its significantly stronger than aromasin, so instead of several expensive tablets a day you could have a fraction of a tablet a week - much cheaper. I'm nervous to even tell people about letrozole as its so powerful, but if anyone should ever need it on TRT, its probably you.

While every day you need several tablets of aromasin, I found a 1/2 tablet of aromasin to bring me from very high E2 to very low E2 for 2 years. Because my body responds equally to 0.5mg as it does to 25mg (25 was set as a standard because everyone responds to it), I found that 0.25mg once every 2 weeks brought me down from E2 level of 60 down to 10 over the year. So I only used 0.25x48=12mg over the entire 2 years which is less than half an aromasin tablet, and my E2 dropped 6 fold and was low that entire time. You meanwhile, need twice that dose every 12 hours!

I should've down tests more frequently but at the time wasn't aware of private testing and had to wait on the NHS. For those 2 years my T was around 3000 ng/dL (my protocol was 250mg/wk) and I only found out at the end of the year when my doc agreed to test it. That's 4x the maximum range for Testosterone on the UK NHS range. My free T was 7x the maximum on NHS range - for 2 years. YET fortnightly microdosed aromasin pulled my E2 down to 10. Six months after coming off it, I was at E2 = 40 (with T = 1400 at peak). I'm careful of that aromasin stuff.

But yeah, let me know if you've heard of letrozole. But be very careful, its very strong stuff - so dosage is a lot less than for aromasin!

 

[Nelson Vergel]

It amazes me how many people still use AIs blindly by assuming so much. Wow!

 

[pmgamer18]

I'm amazed that you need so much aromasin - must be expensive. Have you tried letrozole? Its significantly stronger than aromasin, so instead of several expensive tablets a day you could have a fraction of a tablet a week - much cheaper. I'm nervous to even tell people about letrozole as its so powerful, but if anyone should ever need it on TRT, its probably you.

While every day you need several tablets of aromasin, I found 1/2 tablet to bring me from very high E2 to very low E2 for 2 years. Because my body responds equally to 0.5mg as it does to 25mg (25 was set as a standard because everyone responds to it), I found that 0.25mg once every 2 weeks brought me down from E2 level of 60 down to 10 over the year. So I only used 1/4x48=12mg over 2 years, which is less than half a tablet, and my E2 dropped 6 fold and was low that entire time. You meanwhile, need twice that dose every 12 hours!

I should've down tests more frequently but at the time wasn't aware of private testing and had to wait on the NHS. For those 2 years my T was around 3000 ng/dL (my protocol was 250mg/wk) and I only found out at the end of the year when my doc agreed to test it. That's 4x the maximum range for Testosterone on the UK NHS range. My free T was 7x the maximum on NHS range - for 2 years. YET fortnightly microdosed aromasin pulled my E2 down to 10. Six months after coming off it, I was at E2 = 40 (with T = 1400 at peak). I'm careful of that aromasin stuff.

But yeah, let me know if you've heard of letrozole. But be very careful, its very strong stuff - so dosage is a lot less than for aromasin!

Hi seb288,



Yes I heard about letrozole but my Dr. says no to using. Yet I am down to one pill of aromasin E3D and doing fine. Just did some labs and will be seeing my Dr. next week and will post here my E2 levels.



As for Hempseed Oil I am doing one dropper full 2x's / day the stuff I got is 1200 mgs. It helps with the feeling of stress but does nothing for my pain and the cost is $120.00 and only lasts for 2 weeks. The cost is way to much for me.

Phil

 

[pmgamer18]

Hi seb288,



Yes I heard about letrozole but my Dr. says no to using. Yet I am down to one pill of aromasin E3D and doing fine. Just did some labs and will be seeing my Dr. next week and will post here my E2 levels.



As for Hempseed Oil I am doing one dropper full 2x's / day the stuff I got is 1200 mgs. It helps with the feeling of stress but does nothing for my pain and the cost is $120.00 and only lasts for 2 weeks. The cost is way to much for me.

Phil

I just got back from seeing my Dr. and my Estradiol E2 test came back dam good at 20.

 

[Insight35]

You know guys I warned Phil a long time ago about this obsession with his E2 and that his low levels caused his pain, but he would not accept it and always blamed his painl on his statin usage.

Also I remember his thyroid levels being low and he would not raise the thyroid hormone

I think you need a new doctor Phil that can really help you with the E2 issue. You complain about E2 causing sweating and poor erections. That could be because your pregnenolone and progesterone are not sufficient to oppose the estradiol.

 

[S1W]

It amazes me how many people still use AIs blindly by assuming so much. Wow!

This.

I know there are guys here that are level-headed and settled into their protocols that use and like AIs. All good.

However, I've noticed a recurring theme with guys coming on here looking for guidance, and usually their opening line is something like, "I've been on TRT for 6 weeks now and I feel terrible. My starting weekly protocol is 180mg test, 500mg HCG, and ___ anastrozole..." Seems like most of those "I just started TRT and I feel like crap" posts involves an AI.

Nelson has stated at length some of the misguided thinking about E2. Yet the fear seems to remain, almost as if people think, "Estradiol is a female hormone, if I have high E2 I'm turning into a girl".

It seems that E2 should be in line with T. This is where I personally believe ratios can be useful.

 

[M.J]

This.

I know there are guys here that are level-headed and settled into their protocols that use and like AIs. All good.

However, I've noticed a recurring theme with guys coming on here looking for guidance, and usually their opening line is something like, "I've been on TRT for 6 weeks now and I feel terrible. My starting weekly protocol is 180mg test, 500mg HCG, and ___ anastrozole..." Seems like most of those "I just started TRT and I feel like crap" posts involves an AI.

Nelson has stated at length some of the misguided thinking about E2. Yet the fear seems to remain, almost as if people think, "Estradiol is a female hormone, if I have high E2 I'm turning into a girl".

It seems that E2 should be in line with T. This is where I personally believe ratios can be useful.

I have tried to let E alone, and I got all kind of problems it wasn’t until I retook my arimidix microdose I felt better. Which I am still taking now.