Has anyone tried enclomiphene instead of clomid? Is it worth a try?
Enclomiphene (androxal), any experiences?
- Thread starter Trt909
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I'm a fan, but I've been on it for less than a year. I've had no issues with availability, as I just received another refill.
There are some here that are against it but my take is they had previous issues with clomid usually while on AAS cycles. So a bit of apples and oranges.
My signature states my protocol.
There are some here that are against it but my take is they had previous issues with clomid usually while on AAS cycles. So a bit of apples and oranges.
My signature states my protocol.
aneuman
Active Member
I was on enclomiphene citrate for 6 months and my Total T went from 300 to 1183, E2 did not rise much (33 from 27). I felt well "in general" particularly my mood, but other symptoms like libido, did not improve much.
I'm now following @JmarkH protocol described above. I have not done tests yet, my I feel that there has been an improvement, so I'll do bloodwork in January and see where I am then.
My only concern was LH went above 20, and although I'm not sure whether this is dangerous or not, and the doctor did not give it any thoughts, I was not comfortable with being above normal levels without significant benefits to warrant the risks.
I'm now following @JmarkH protocol described above. I have not done tests yet, my I feel that there has been an improvement, so I'll do bloodwork in January and see where I am then.
My only concern was LH went above 20, and although I'm not sure whether this is dangerous or not, and the doctor did not give it any thoughts, I was not comfortable with being above normal levels without significant benefits to warrant the risks.
It certainly works if you're secondary hypogonadal. I've used it several times and have always experienced negative side effects. In my opinion, it's definitely a viable treatment option, but I would recommend not using it every day. An every other day approach seems to limit the amount in enclomiphene builds up on the e2 receptors. The lack of buildup should diminish the side effects. I have had way more success with enclomiphene versus chlomid.
aneuman
Active Member
Good point, it will only work if you're secondary AND your pituitary is still able to produce LH. If for whatever reason your pituitary is toast, blocking the negative feedback loop is not going to accomplish much. In that case, HCG might work, but if the pituitary still responds AND your testicles still respond, then the results are seen very quickly, but clinically, in many cases, symptoms of hypogonadism are not improved in spite of the marvelous blood work.
Without any evidence, I kind of agree with @CKO. I'm now taking it kind of EOD. As I said, no evidence yet on whether it works better or not, but I get the feeling that every day might not be ideal.
See below my results:
Dont forget the "H" part of the HPTA. The hypothalamus must also be at least partly functioning. You need to produce both kisspeptin and GnRH for enclomiphene to work as monotherapy.
Kiss->GnRH->LH->T->E2
aneuman
Active Member
Good point. Nothing's ever as simple as we'd like it to be.
Just joined, was just prescribed 12.5mg enclomiphen everyday.
Of energy by chance ? Currently my T is 303 LH 4 and FSH is 2.1 E2 is 15 Wondering if it’ll help or if I should just go to test cyp. I already have 3 kiddos.
I was just prescribed it. 12.5mg each day. Haven’t even received my prescription yet. Did it improve symptoms like brain fog and lack
Of energy by chance ? Currently my T is 303 LH 4 and FSH is 2.1 E2 is 15 Wondering if it’ll help or if I should just go to test cyp. I already have 3 kiddos.
Welcome, Zipty636. My brain fog cleared dramatically. I was a mess with brain fog and anxiety before starting hcg and clomiphene. 8 weeks later, they switched me to enclomiphene.
aneuman
Active Member
@Zipty636, Welcome to the forum.
Based on my personal experience, which may be different from yours, enclomiphene citrate 12.5 mg Every Day (from Empower) for 6 months made me feel better from the psychological point of view, more optimistic, less explosive, less anger, less "laziness". With enclomiphene the changes were more subtle, it's not like you swallow the pill and all of a sudden life is unicorns and rainbows. The biochemistry improved dramatically and quickly, however, other more "sexual related" aspects did not improve as much. Look at my records above and see that I was almost where you are when I started. In 3 months I was willing to workout again, and my optimism increased.
One thing to keep an eye on is LH and FSH and probably GnRH (thinking of you @Cataceous) as Enclomiphene blocks the negative feedback of Estradiol on the Hypothalamus and the Pituitary. Mine were off the charts (almost 3 times maximum levels). I'm not sure if that has any side effects, whether good or bad. The andrologist that was treating me at the time did not bother measuring it, my PCP said that it was okay and there was no need to worry (LH > 20). I have not found any literature saying that it poses a risk though.
I'd recommend you discuss with your doctor having blood work at 3 months after treatment, and to decide a [path] forward based not only on lab values, but also on how you feel.
Good luck.
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aneuman
Active Member
Obviously I do not recommend a pariah forward, but a path forward instead (darn autocorrect)
These levels probably aren't rivaling those of post-menopausal women, but still...
... Accordingly, a large number of studies have demonstrated that an increase in LH levels is positively correlated with neuropathological, behavioral, and cognitive changes in AD. In addition, LH has been shown to promote amyloidogenic pathway of precursor protein metabolism and deposition of amyloid β plaques in the hippocampus, a region involved in AD. ...
Involvement of Luteinizing Hormone in Alzheimer Disease Development in Elderly Women - PubMed
Alzheimer disease (AD) is a slow progressive neurodegenerative disease that affects more elderly women than elderly men. It impairs memory, typically progresses into multidomain cognitive decline that destroys the quality of life, and ultimately leads to death. About 5.3 million older Americans...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Thanks for the info
I don't see the Enclomiphene in your protocol?
In March 2023 I switched to TestC. By October 2022 I had stalled, November, sliding backwards [gaining weight], and by December gaining more weight and mild other symptoms. While still far better off than before treatment, it wasn't satisfactory. My clinic agreed that I had reached the maximum my body could accomplish and it was time to start testosterone. I will take my 8-week labs next week. I'm still a fan of giving enclomiphene a try.
It is possible that my weight gain and other things was /is related to thyroid issues. The VA refused to change my thyroid med dosage at my annual physical and I requested an endocrinologist appointment. Still don't have the appointment.
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aneuman
Active Member
after almost two years on enclomiphene, I finally dropped it. I can't see a reason to use it, other than raising total testosterone, LH and FSH in lab tests. From the symptomatic point of view, I don't think it does anything positive, and it may have some drawbacks (nipple sensitivity, chest fat, tendonitis?. stalled muscle growth?)
I have used from 12.5 mg every day alone, to 4 times a week along low dose HCG, to 3 times a week. In all cases it raised my LH and FSH off the charts and testosterone along with it, but has not alleviated any of the symptoms.
Currently I'm on low dose HCG only (300 IU 4 times a week) mostly because I have noticed substantial improvement in BPH issues (particularly pain and flow). To early to tell, but so far I'm riding on it, and will discuss with my andrologist the switch to TC.
I had a lot of expectations and willingness for it to work, as it's just a pil, relatively inexpensive, no immediate side effects, and labs through the roof, but ultimately it's not the labs that matter, but symptomatology.
It also concerns me that it's really not known (or at least I don't know and I can't seem to find) what other estrogen receptors it binds to other than pituitary and hypothalamus, and what effect this binding has on sexual and overall health, because it's paradoxical that with the notable increase in testosterone, without really increasing estradiol, that most hypogonadal symptoms are not improved. Curiously this seems to be why the FDA did not approve Androxal, and why its development was abandoned.
I have used from 12.5 mg every day alone, to 4 times a week along low dose HCG, to 3 times a week. In all cases it raised my LH and FSH off the charts and testosterone along with it, but has not alleviated any of the symptoms.
Currently I'm on low dose HCG only (300 IU 4 times a week) mostly because I have noticed substantial improvement in BPH issues (particularly pain and flow). To early to tell, but so far I'm riding on it, and will discuss with my andrologist the switch to TC.
I had a lot of expectations and willingness for it to work, as it's just a pil, relatively inexpensive, no immediate side effects, and labs through the roof, but ultimately it's not the labs that matter, but symptomatology.
It also concerns me that it's really not known (or at least I don't know and I can't seem to find) what other estrogen receptors it binds to other than pituitary and hypothalamus, and what effect this binding has on sexual and overall health, because it's paradoxical that with the notable increase in testosterone, without really increasing estradiol, that most hypogonadal symptoms are not improved. Curiously this seems to be why the FDA did not approve Androxal, and why its development was abandoned.
That being said, I assume no increase in E2? Anyone else notice an increase? Would it not make sense that since testosterone is increased, so too would E2 from normal aromatization.
My urologist has prescribed me clomiphene, but where are you guys getting enclomiphene filled? I want to talk to my urologist about it in a few weeks.
Empower Pharmacy is the only one I know of. There are others marketing it like Maximus, but the markup is huge. Cheapest I have found is to have your get your doc write a scrip for it and fax it in to Empower.
What do you people think about combining enclomiphine with a small amount of clomid?
For example 12.5mg/day of enclomiphene and 5mg eod of clomid?
That may solve the drop in libido that enclomiphene causes.
For example 12.5mg/day of enclomiphene and 5mg eod of clomid?
That may solve the drop in libido that enclomiphene causes.
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