E3.5D vs M W F injections

[S1W]

E3.5D vs M W F vs EOD injections

Let's assume all things being equal and SHBG of 27 (16.5-55.9).

Would there be any benefit in going from twice weekly injections every 3.5 days to injecting 3 times per week on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.

For example, let's assume a weekly dose of T. Cyp. totaling 116mg. Injecting E3.5D would be 58mg Monday morning and 58mg Thursday night.

Would a change to say 36mg Monday, 36mg Wednesday, and 44mg Friday provide any benefit in terms of smoothing out any peaks/troughs and maybe help with E2?

 

[Vince]

It should help some in lowering the spikes of testosterone and it should help control your estradiol levels somewhat. I've been injecting daily for about 1 year now, my fear was it would be too difficult. So far it has worked out really good for me.

 

[CoastWatcher]

It is, indeed, possible. Over two and one half years on daily injections has locked things into place for me, a true steady-state. But this is TRT and each one if us is different. You can't say with certainty. Give it a try and see how you respond.

 

[FeelingLost]

If you don't have issues with your SHGB then most stick themselves more often in hopes it will reduce E2 so they don't need to take an AI and keep HCT in check so they don't have to donate blood. You will only know if you try it because more frequent injections effect everyone differently. As far as I know there is no big down side to this other than the inconvenience and cost of supplies.

 

[Driven Mad]

It's all in the labs and most importantly how you feel. Try the change, do your lab work and see how you feel. I've been at 50mg E3.5D for a while now and no E2 or HCT issues whatsoever.


Driven Mad and getting madder by the minute.

 

[Vince Carter]

If you have to shoot mose mg's on Firday to carry you thru the weekend I would think that that's your answer right there to this being good for you (it's not).

 

[S1W]

If you have to shoot mose mg's on Firday to carry you thru the weekend I would think that that's your answer right there to this being good for you (it's not).

I’m not sure if I have to or not, just seemed like a logical way to break it up. Do guys that inject M W F typically do 3 equally sized injections?

 

[Vince]

I'm not sure if I have to or not, just seemed like a logical way to break it up. Do guys that inject M W F typically do 3 equally sized injections?

Guys usually do inject equal amounts on all three days, usually inject Friday night Monday morning and Wednesday morning.

 

[Systemlord]

I'm not sure if I have to or not, just seemed like a logical way to break it up. Do guys that inject M W F typically do 3 equally sized injections?

Not only do we inject the same dosage every time we space it out evenly, nobody injects Mon, Wed, Fri and skips Sat & Sun then back to Mon. You want to feel consistent then you must inject consistently.

 

[WrenchHead80]

Monday Morning Wednesday afternoon and Friday night are evenly spaced out shots every week. So keep the dosage the same every shot.

If you want the OCD answer (which I like lol) I do Monday 7am Wednesday 3pm and Friday 11pm which is perfectly spaced out every week. Personally I don't think a few hours off will make a difference.

 

[S1W]

Thank you all for the information - sounds like my dosage guesswork was off base and I was unaware of the timing required (injecting Friday nights). Aside from hoping to better manage E2, spikes, etc, part of the reason I wanted to switch to MWF was because I dont like injecting at night with my current E3.5D schedule.

So maybe EOD would help me achieve my goals of possibly reducing E2 and spikes and only injecting in the morning.

With that, if I was injecting 116mg per week total with E3.5D, should I split that out evenly to say 33mg EOD, or would you recommend reducing the dose a bit to a lower overall total switching to the more frequent injection schedule?

I ask because I have read about guys reducing their dosage on more frequent injection schedules. I know just giving it a try/labs will be the only definitive answer, but it’d be good to hear others experiences so I can set myself up for success as best as possible.

 

[madman]

If you don't have issues with your SHGB then most stick themselves more often in hopes it will reduce E2 so they don't need to take an AI and keep HCT in check so they don't have to donate blood. You will only know if you try it because more frequent injections effect everyone differently. As far as I know there is no big down side to this other than the inconvenience and cost of supplies.

The only downside to injecting more frequently especially daily or eod would be if one did not reduce their overall weekly dose as many can end up with t levels too high or well beyond what is needed as injecting more frequently usually allows one to attain higher total/free t levels at a lower weekly testosterone dose.

 

[Systemlord]

The only downside to injecting more frequently especially daily or eod would be if one did not reduce their overall weekly dose as many can end up with t levels too high or well beyond what is needed as injecting more frequently usually allows one to attain higher total/free t levels at a lower weekly testosterone dose.

This is exactly what happened to me, I was fine injecting 50mg twice weekly but the moment I started injecting 25mg EOD (no AI) my T shot up to the 850 ranges and E2 over 6 weeks steadily climbed and became a real problem. It took me another 2 months to find the correct dose and needed to reduce my dosage to 18mg EOD (22mg reduction), I feel great and still have 2 weeks to go for stable blood levels.

I would recommend reducing dosage by at least 20%.

 

[S1W]

This is exactly what happened to me, I was fine injecting 50mg twice weekly but the moment I started injecting 25mg EOD (no AI) my T shot up to the 850 ranges and E2 over 6 weeks steadily climbed and became a real problem. It took me another 2 months to find the correct dose and needed to reduce my dosage to 18mg EOD (22mg reduction), I feel great and still have 2 weeks to go for stable blood levels.

I would recommend reducing dosage by at least 20%.

Helpful information - thanks. What is/was your SHBG when you were having issues with 25mg EOD and doing well with 18mg EOD?

 

[Vince]

This is exactly what happened to me, I was fine injecting 50mg twice weekly but the moment I started injecting 25mg EOD (no AI) my T shot up to the 850 ranges and E2 over 6 weeks steadily climbed and became a real problem. It took me another 2 months to find the correct dose and needed to reduce my dosage to 18mg EOD (22mg reduction), I feel great and still have 2 weeks to go for stable blood levels.

I would recommend reducing dosage by at least 20%.

Remember, even though your levels look higher when you have labs. Your peaks are lower and your valleys are higher. Since we're always testing at our lowest point, our labs may just look higher than they really are.

 

[madman]

Remember, even though your levels look higher when you have labs. Your peaks are lower and your valleys are higher. Since we're always testing at our lowest point, our labs may just look higher than they really are.

Definitely but even though ones peaks may not be much higher compared to ones trough when injecting (daily/EOD), many still have troughs that are too high and not needed hence slightly lowering overall dosage to have a trough at a more reasonable level.

Not too many people on trt need a trough at 1000+ as many do extremely well with a trough in the 600-800 ng/dl range.............a trough of < 500 would be a different story!

Nelson even recommends in his book if ones trough is >900 to look into lowering ones testosterone dose.

Sure many may state they feel better with a trough at 1000+ but I bet many of those people have never tried lowering their dose to bring down trough and actually stay there for at least 3 months as regardless of test levels stabilizing after 6 weeks at new dose it still takes time for ones body to react to the lower dose.

Many will claim they feel worse after 6 weeks on a lower dose and say well I tried it but DID THEY REALLY.................give it a good 3 months to see how the body truly reacts physically/mentally.

6 weeks is no where near enough time to gauge how the new test levels whether lower or higher really effects ones overall improvements or lack there of.

Too many people are misinformed and seem to have the mentality that higher testosterone levels are better or higher testosterone levels are needed in order to benefit from trt when in reality in many instances this is not the case.

If one searches and studies the literature believe it or not ones testosterone levels do not need to be in the higher end of the physiological range to notice improvements in low t symptoms.

Sure some do benefit from higher levels but it is not common place.

 

[Systemlord]

Helpful information - thanks. What is/was your SHBG when you were having issues with 25mg EOD and doing well with 18mg EOD?

SHBG was 19 nmol/L 25mg EOD, it was the E2 that I was struggling with. I still have 2 weeks to go before I find out where I am on 18mg EOD. I know if a protocol is going to be successful when I start feeling good just after the 4 week point, if I'm still struggling by this time it's a failed protocol.

 

[Vince]

Definitely but even though ones peaks may not be much higher compared to ones trough when injecting (daily/EOD), many still have troughs that are too high and not needed hence slightly lowering overall dosage to have a trough at a more reasonable level.

Not too many people on trt need a trough at 1000+ as many do extremely well with a trough in the 600-800 ng/dl range.............a trough of < 500 would be a different story!

Nelson even recommends in his book if ones trough is >900 to look into lowering ones testosterone dose.

Sure many may state they feel better with a trough at 1000+ but I bet many of those people have never tried lowering their dose to bring down trough and actually stay there for at least 3 months as regardless of test levels stabilizing after 6 weeks at new dose it still takes time for ones body to react to the lower dose.

Many will claim they feel worse after 6 weeks on a lower dose and say well I tried it but DID THEY REALLY.................give it a good 3 months to see how the body truly reacts physically/mentally.

6 weeks is no where near enough time to gauge how the new test levels whether lower or higher really effects ones overall improvements or lack there of.

Too many people are misinformed and seem to have the mentality that higher testosterone levels are better or higher testosterone levels are needed in order to benefit from trt when in reality in many instances this is not the case.

If one searches and studies the literature believe it or not ones testosterone levels do not need to be in the higher end of the physiological range to notice improvements in low t symptoms.

Sure some do benefit from higher levels but it is not common place.

I believe when Nelson wrote that about testosterone levels, he was talking about every three and a half days injections. So as we know the Peaks would have been much higher than 900. I'm really looking forward to reading Nelson's new book I'm hoping there will be an audible version. He said he's learned a lot through this form, but I don't want to speak for him of course.

 

[madman]

I believe when Nelson wrote that about testosterone levels, he was talking about every three and a half days injections. So as we know the Peaks would have been much higher than 900. I'm really looking forward to reading Nelson's new book I'm hoping there will be an audible version. He said he's learned a lot through this form, but I don't want to speak for him of course.

I read it as weekly trough.

Peaks are temporary so higher levels are expected.

Even if ones trough was 900 injecting every 3.5 days peak would more than likely be 1100-1200 ng/dl (high end physiological range)...................not so bad!

Now 1500+ ng/dl whether peak or trough is not needed especially daily.

 

[Vince]

I read it as weekly trough.

Peaks are temporary so higher levels are expected.

Even if ones trough was 900 injecting every 3.5 days peak would more than likely be 1100-1200 ng/dl (high end physiological range)...................not so bad!

Now 1500+ ng/dl whether peak or trough is not needed especially daily.

I feel for me with the daily injections my levels are best around 1000 ng/dl. A good friend of mine who's not on TRT and a few years older then me levels are just over 1000. I believe most young men if they eat and exercise properly T levels should be over 1000.