E2 fluctuation makes no sense

[Cataceous]

Getting back to your original question: 200 mg per week is a whopping dose, camouflaged by using trough serum measurements. With these trough TT values running 1,000-1,200 ng/dL, you can expect the peak values to be two to three times higher. For example, your peak TT may run about 2,500 ng/dL, implying that your average value is about 1,800 ng/dL. Going to E3D injections had the desired effect, stabilizing serum testosterone by moving peaks and troughs closer to the average value. What you weren't expecting was the stark evidence of excessive dosing; trough testosterone moved from ~1,000 ng/dL closer to the average of ~1,800. The results might be easier to understand if you consider that the average healthy young guy naturally produces 6-7 mg of testosterone per day, while you're taking an average of 20 mg per day—about three times as much.

The subsequent high estradiol measurement is harder to explain, although it's nothing unreasonable compared to the testosterone levels you have earlier in the injection cycles. In other words, estradiol typically runs about 0.3-0.6% of testosterone, so your original measurements in the 20s pg/mL were on the low side even relative to trough TT of ~1,000 ng/dL. The current figure of 74 pg/mL is slightly high relative to trough TT, but is only 0.3% of your possible peak TT.

In your shoes I would not use an AI. Instead I would cut the testosterone cypionate dose to 50 mg twice a week and ride out the withdrawal for a few months before assessing things.

 

[Systemlord]

My two cents: if your doctor advises you to take it, and it successfully brings your levels to a normal range, and does not bother you, or create new, unwanted symptoms, I think it’s reasonable to use it as long as you are following labs and symptoms closely.

Not 2 mg anastrozole per week.

 

[Deuce]

Not 2 mg anastrozole per week.

I'm sure that is to get it down from the 400% it has risen and reevaluate/ adjust the dose accordingly once a new level has been established.

 

[Deuce]

Getting back to your original question: 200 mg per week is a whopping dose, camouflaged by using trough serum measurements. With these trough TT values running 1,000-1,200 ng/dL, you can expect the peak values to be two to three times higher. For example, your peak TT may run about 2,500 ng/dL, implying that your average value is about 1,800 ng/dL. Going to E3D injections had the desired effect, stabilizing serum testosterone by moving peaks and troughs closer to the average value. What you weren't expecting was the stark evidence of excessive dosing; trough testosterone moved from ~1,000 ng/dL closer to the average of ~1,800. The results might be easier to understand if you consider that the average healthy young guy naturally produces 6-7 mg of testosterone per day, while you're taking an average of 20 mg per day—about three times as much.

The subsequent high estradiol measurement is harder to explain, although it's nothing unreasonable compared to the testosterone levels you have earlier in the injection cycles. In other words, estradiol typically runs about 0.3-0.6% of testosterone, so your original measurements in the 20s pg/mL were on the low side even relative to trough TT of ~1,000 ng/dL. The current figure of 74 pg/mL is slightly high relative to trough TT, but is only 0.3% of your possible peak TT.

In your shoes I would not use an AI. Instead I would cut the testosterone cypionate dose to 50 mg twice a week and ride out the withdrawal for a few months before assessing things.

Very well said. Thank you

 

[Systemlord]

I'm sure that is to get it down from the 400% it has risen and reevaluate/ adjust the dose accordingly once a new level has been established.

It’s typical to crash one’s estrogen to 0 or in the single digits within the first 1 mg dosage, and even .5 being too much for consistent use. Sure there are outliers that can get away with bigger dosages, but also over-responders such as myself.

I took a 10th of a 0.050 anastrozole and hips and knees hurt a few days later, simply sitting down was agonizing. Anastrozole was never meant for men, let alone long term use. One should keep a close eye in lipids if on anastrozole long term and dexa scans yearly wouldn’t hurt either.

A responsible up to date doctor would start out with micro dosing .125 or .250 compounded options.

Trying to justify 2 mg per week for a man on “TRT” isn’t going to fly.

Recovery from E2 crash

 

[Deuce]

It’s typical to crash one’s estrogen to 0 or in the single digits within the first 1 mg dosage, and even .5 being too much for consistent use. Sure there are outliers that can get away with bigger dosages, but also over-responders such as myself.

I took a 10th of a 0.050 anastrozole and hips and knees hurt a few days later, simply sitting down was agonizing. Anastrozole was never meant for men, let alone long term use. One should keep a close eye in lipids if on anastrozole long term and dexa scans yearly wouldn’t hurt either.

A responsible up to date doctor would start out with micro dosing .125 or .250 compounded options.

Trying to justify 2 mg per week for a man on “TRT” isn’t going to fly.

Recovery from E2 crash

Anastrazole was never created for a particular gender. It's to treat breast cancer.

One part I failed to mention(kind of on purpose) which debunks what you're saying, as a "general rule"
I did take 1 mg per week and it only dropped me by about 25% of the rise.... I was still nearly triple my baseline. This is why the doctor suggested moving to 2 mg, based on labs and current dose based reduction. This change to be followed with later lab work. The result was returning my e2 back into the low 20's.

I'm sure you meant 1/10 of half a mg.... (.5)
Not 1/10 of 1/500th (.05) of 1mg.

This highlights why labs are important to measure the efficacy of the drug in the patient. And why going by feeling is an absolutely dangerous method to use. Not everyone has the same reaction or response to treatment.

I do agree that it Negatively impacts HDL cholesterol, which creates a harmful enviroment for the heart. This is why I'm discussing the topic..... And don't think AI's are wise to take.

 

[VacationMan]

I don't know that it is bad.....But the doc goes by the lab range....which maxes at 44 for a male...hence prescribing the AI. He even suggested up to 2mg a week....

I have stopped the dim and still have higher test at much lower dose than I used to.... and nearly triple the e2 (without dim) that I had prior to dim...for a year or more.

It boggles me that 200 per week netted 1200 Total T... and now as low as 140 has resulted in 1200-1500+

Be careful with the AI. At 2 mg per week, you'll likely crash E2 and end up with worse symptoms.

I had high estrogen. The idiot urologist I was seeing had me taking 1 mg of Anastrazole per week. That crashed my E2 levels big time and I felt horrible as a result. I finally ended up compounding my own - 4 mg of Anastrazole in 16 cc of quality vodka. So 1 cc of the solution ended up being .25 mg of Anastrazole. Over time, I ended up only needing .125 mg of Anastrazole per week to get my E2 in the 25-30 range (where I feel my best). This took -forever- to get "right". Adjust...wait...blood work...adjust again...wait...blood work.

Anastrazole is a very -strong- AI, and apparently your doc doesn't get it.

 

[Deuce]

Be careful with the AI. At 2 mg per week, you'll likely crash E2 and end up with worse symptoms.

I had high estrogen. The idiot urologist I was seeing had me taking 1 mg of Anastrazole per week. That crashed my E2 levels big time and I felt horrible as a result. I finally ended up compounding my own - 4 mg of Anastrazole in 16 cc of quality vodka. So 1 cc of the solution ended up being .25 mg of Anastrazole. Over time, I ended up only needing .125 mg of Anastrazole per week to get my E2 in the 25-30 range (where I feel my best). This took -forever- to get "right". Adjust...wait...blood work...adjust again...wait...blood work.

Anastrazole is a very -strong- AI, and apparently your doc doesn't get it.

I appreciate your response.
My doc actually hit it on the head. 2 mg per week brought me right back to baseline, which is 20.
1 mg did not.
My concern is not crashing my e2, as it clearly doesn't, for me. My concern is heart health, and the fact that it absolutely plummets HDL.

 

[SpyrosB]

I appreciate your response.
My doc actually hit it on the head. 2 mg per week brought me right back to baseline, which is 20.
1 mg did not.
My concern is not crashing my e2, as it clearly doesn't, for me. My concern is heart health, and the fact that it absolutely plummets HDL.

How have you been feeling all this time, did you have any symptoms of high E2 that were alleviated with the AI? How do you feel now at 20?

 

[Deuce]

How have you been feeling all this time, did you have any symptoms of high E2 that were alleviated with the AI? How do you feel now at 20?

That's the catch-22. With elevated E2 I was having Gyno symptoms and pains in my left peck. I've had this confirmed via sonogram and mammogram last week.With the fear of creating an unhealthy heart condition I tended to not take the AI. Instead I lowered my dose of testosterone .... She tried microdosingwhich was the point of this post. Lowering my dose Or interval did not lower my testosterone or e2 levels.

 

[SpyrosB]

That's the catch-22. With elevated E2 I was having Gyno symptoms and pains in my left peck. I've had this confirmed via sonogram and mammogram last week.With the fear of creating an unhealthy heart condition I tended to not take the AI. Instead I lowered my dose of testosterone .... She tried microdosingwhich was the point of this post. Lowering my dose Or interval did not lower my testosterone or e2 levels.

The way you write is a bit confusing. Everything is a bit mixed up. Injecting larger doses further apart promotes more aromatization. Injecting more frequently tends to reduce aromatization.
When did your gyno symptoms go away? After reducing the dose or after taking an AI?
I'm assuming you are now still on 150mg per 7 days, how much AI are you taking now per day and how are you feeling?

Are you taking any other medications or recently changed habits in a way that may affect E levels? Your E would simply not shoot up at 150mg of Test higher than it did at 200mg, all else being equal. There is another reason for the E increase that you're not seeing certainly. Have you or are you now using HCG?

 

[Deuce]

The way you write is a bit confusing. Everything is a bit mixed up. Injecting larger doses further apart promotes more aromatization. Injecting more frequently tends to reduce aromatization.
When did your gyno symptoms go away? After reducing the dose or after taking an AI?
I'm assuming you are now still on 150mg per 7 days, how much AI are you taking now per day and how are you feeling?

Are you taking any other medications or recently changed habits in a way that may affect E levels? Your E would simply not shoot up at 150mg of Test higher than it did at 200mg, all else being equal. There is another reason for the E increase that you're not seeing certainly. Have you or are you now using HCG?

Not sure what part is confusing you. The point of the post is that my experience with dosage, and frequency regarding testosterone and E2 levels... does not align with what you're stating.....nor what most assume.

I only responded with the AI dosage because it again does not align with what most people believe, and push as fact. Everyone is different, and what may crash one person's E2 may not touch another's. In my experience, to bring my level back down to my natural E2 level required 2 mg of an anastrazole per 7 days.

As I had stated, I do not regularly take an AI... Because of the damaging effect to HDL and heart health......so my symptom of high e2 remains.

I know it doesn't make sense, but my estrogen and testosterone levels are absolutely significantly higher at a lower dose of testosterone....with no other changes...

The only thing that had changed, temporarily between my standard 200 per week and normal E2. And 150 a week with higher T and E2 was using, 300 mg Dim-per day for about 3 months. Using Dim is what started this anomaly.

It's been many months since discontinuing Dim, and both T and E2 remain higher at 150 per week than they were at 200 per week.... Prior to ever trying Dim.