Donating blood to reduce Hct levels

[LiveX2]

I recently donated whole blood, my labs are coming up in several weeks and I'm hoping that improved eating habits and donating will lower Hgb/Hct levels several points. Question, would donating double red blood cells help to lower Hct levels more than donating whole blood? Not make a difference?

Whole blood donation - This process collects a pint of blood containing red blood cells, white blood cells, platelets, and plasma in a single session.

Double red cell donation - Only collects red blood cells, excluding platelets and plasma. This specialized process, known as automation or apheresis, focuses specifically on extracting red blood cells.

 

[Systemlord]

I'm hoping that improved eating habits and donating will lower Hgb/Hct levels several points.

No way, this is a pipe dream. Stop fooling yourself. Nothing affects HCT more than testosterone.

Also, donating blood with the intent of controlling hematocrit, long-term doesn’t work. Your hemoglobin and hematocrit reach previous levels prior to donation within 2-3 weeks and all you’re doing is losing iron and potentially crashing your ferritin levels.

My doctor doesn’t care about hematocrit, he focuses more on the hemoglobin.

 

[LiveX2]

Hmm. Are you suggesting that If I want my HCT levels reduced (the most) I should lower my testosterone dose?

Do you suggest I stop donating because it doesn't work to lower HCT? since we are 2-3 weeks out from my labs, we'll test that theory of levels returning. Lab and my Dr. indicate 2-3 months before returning to prior levels, which is about how long I can wait until next donation.

Your Dr. doesn't care about HCT? what if your HCT we > 50 or as high as 58%.

RE my original ?, seems like a double red takes double to count - I just haven't heard anyone's experiences with that. Any thoughts on that?

FYI - The improved eating habits I refer to is to lower my red meat consumption.

 

[aloetard]

Yes a double red would lower your temporary Hct twice as much as single unit donation.

And btw, hbg and hct will be both affected equivalently (normalized basis) by the donation.

 

[aloetard]

Here's the problem with donation (ignoring the life saving importance of it and longer term iron balance):

With single unit donation you are "stuck" with 16g needle (haha).

With double red they move to 18g needle but pump the plasma back in along with the DEHP plasticizer from the PVC tubing.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/voxs.12027

If you are 300 lb mass monster, maybe ok. If a small child, probably not great for ya.

 

[aloetard]

As many times as we discuss this some just never get it...

Hemoglobin and Hematocrits are the same

Hemoglobin and Hematocrits are the same

www.crit.cloud

An educated Doctor would know hct and hgb are diagnostically equivalent in all but some special cases. For the vast majority of dudes on TRT, they both give the same info.

There simply is NO difference between Hemoglobin and Hematocrit by means of clinical information!
In fact, virtually all haemoglobin in our blood is contained within erythrocytes
Therefore, whether the amount of Hb per litre of blood is determined or the blood’s volume occupied by the Hb filled erythrocytes is determined, similar information is gained.
Nijboer at al. have brilliantly proven that Hb and Hct correlate in all ranges and all patients and also nicely show this in their figure 1 (see below)
The only rare exceptions are macrocytic and polycytemic anaemia in which the Hct is defined by erythrocytes containing a normal mean corpuscular Hb concentration

 

[LiveX2]

Here's the problem with donation (ignoring the life saving importance of it and longer term iron balance):

With single unit donation you are "stuck" with 16g needle (haha).

With double red they move to 18g needle but pump the plasma back in along with the DEHP plasticizer from the PVC tubing.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/voxs.12027

If you are 300 lb mass monster, maybe ok. If a small child, probably not great for ya.

Interesting...just scanned it and something to consider. Ill read the entire case later. not a 300 lb mass monster just your friendly neighborhood 178lb shredded beast.

 

[Systemlord]

Do you suggest I stop donating because it doesn't work to lower HCT?

Let’s say you donate blood every three months, your blood parameters are only going to be in range for 2 to 3 weeks, the rest of the time they are going to be elevated.

Stop this madness, lower your dosage if your levels are substantially elevated and you have symptoms.

You never even mention what your hemoglobin and hematocrit levels are, this limits the quality of information you can receive. I’ve seen countless times where men think their levels are high (51-52%) when they’re actually not.

Lab ranges for hematocrit very wildly, some range top out at 48%, others 50, 51, and 52%. The TRT guidelines say <54%, over this value action is taken to reduce hematocrit and even this may be unnecessary in some cases. Also, depending on which lab company you go to your levels are high at one lab company and normal at another.

Men that try to manage their own treatment without consulting “qualified doctors” tend to cause more problems for themselves.

The most qualified doctor would be an up-to-date hematologist. This is what I did and even with a hematocrit level of 55% and a hemoglobin level of 19.4. The hematologist told my endocrinologist to stop the monthly phlebotomies if I have no symptoms.

Not every case will be the same, treatment should be tailored to the individuals specific needs, symptoms or lack of. There’s no one size fits all approach to testosterone replacement therapy.

My patient portal doctors response to my hemoglobin and hematocrit values ->

I did speak to the hematologist about you some more and we came to the conclusion that you do not have to continue your regular phlebotomy as long as you are not having symptoms. Excess hemoglobin can cause symptoms (headaches, increasing blood pressure, fatigue, abdominal pain and rarely vision changes). If they are not causing you symptoms, we can watch your hemoglobin levels, even if they do climb higher. I do think we should still periodically monitor every 2 months to make sure it does not climb any higher.

 

[LiveX2]

As many times as we discuss this some just never get it...

Hemoglobin and Hematocrits are the same

Hemoglobin and Hematocrits are the same

www.crit.cloud

An educated Doctor would know hct and hgb are diagnostically equivalent in all but some specialized cases. For the vast majority of dudes on TRT, they both give the same info.

I get it. Hgb is the protein in the blood. Hct is just easier to reference and visualize a % of RBC in my blood.

 

[aloetard]

I get it. Hgb is the protein in the blood. Hct is just easier to reference and visualize a % of RBC in my blood.

I was referring to another poster in thread. Implication was they are different. Sorry for any confusion.

 

[Systemlord]

Lab and my Dr. indicate 2-3 months before returning to prior levels

Your doctor is mistaken, according to my endocrinologist, the lab tests become more accurate the further way you get from your blood donation. This creates the false notion that your hemoglobin hematocrit levels return to previous levels in 2 to 3 months.

 

[LiveX2]

Your doctor is mistaken, according to my endocrinologist, the lab tests become more accurate the further way you get from your blood donation. This creates the false notion that your hemoglobin hematocrit levels return to previous levels in 2 to 3 months.

Thanks for your input and the info, very much appreciated.

I enjoy donating, aside from managing my hct/hgb, it saves lives. My iron levels are good and like my TRT protocol. I'm probably ok at 54 hct but I take baby aspirin and manage the levels through donations per my Dr. Maybe not necessary, but I feel good about donating and it doesn't seem to hurt anything.

 

[aloetard]

Thanks for your input and the info, very much appreciated.

I enjoy donating, aside from managing my hct/hgb, it saves lives. My iron levels are good and like my TRT protocol. I'm probably ok at 54 hct but I take baby aspirin and manage the levels through donations per my Dr. Maybe not necessary, but I feel good about donating and it doesn't seem to hurt anything.

Awesome!!

 

[Systemlord]

Thanks for your input and the info, very much appreciated.

I enjoy donating, aside from managing my hct/hgb, it saves lives. My iron levels are good and like my TRT protocol. I'm probably ok at 54 hct but I take baby aspirin and manage the levels through donations per my Dr. Maybe not necessary, but I feel good about donating and it doesn't seem to hurt anything.

I donate to helps others also, as my blood type is desirable for babies (O negative). I don’t donate because of my high hemoglobin and hematocrit levels.

 

[LiveX2]

That's great it literally saves lives when you donate. I suppose just watch the ferritin levels. Don't know if it helps but I shoot 1cc B12 weekly.

 

[Systemlord]

That's great it literally saves lives when you donate. I suppose just watch the ferritin levels. Don't know if it helps but I shoot 1cc B12 weekly.

Plus the optimal ferritin level for longevity is <100, 500 and your life expectancy is 50-60 years. This is what researches found when going over long term data looking at people who donated versus those who didn't.

Iron in excess is very toxic to the body and causes oxidative stress and this creates inflammatory cytokines and can cause muscle loss, atrophy, damaging lipids, proteins, mitochondria and nucleic acids.

 

[Mill3r]

Plus the optimal ferritin level for longevity is <100, 500 and your life expectancy is 50-60 years. This is what researches found when going over long term data looking at people who donated versus those who didn't.

Iron in excess is very toxic to the body and causes oxidative stress and this creates inflammatory cytokines and can cause muscle loss, atrophy, damaging lipids, proteins, mitochondria and nucleic acids.

Here’s a rewritten version of your text:

---

This is interesting. I’m 36, and since 2018, my ferritin levels have been steadily climbing above 400, reaching over 700 prior to starting TRT. I was investigated for hemochromatosis but found to be only a single-gene carrier. While this means I can still load iron, it happens at a slower rate. Additionally, I have a blood disorder called hereditary spherocytosis, which causes my red blood cells (RBCs) to be sphere-shaped. This led to my spleen being removed at age 7 because it was destroying my RBCs, mistaking them for defective.

Since starting TRT just three months ago, my most recent blood test shows that my ferritin has dropped from over 700 to 200, and I suspect it will decrease further. I believe this may explain why my RBC and hematocrit (HCT) levels have increased so rapidly. It's wild because I had battled with the NHS for years to address my ferritin levels, even undergoing an MRI of my liver to check for iron overload, which came back clear.

Currently, I see both an endocrinologist and a hematologist. My testosterone levels before TRT were extremely low, ranging between 3 nmol/L and 9 nmol/L. Over two years, the endocrinologists I consulted were utterly unhelpful, often dismissing my symptoms as psychological and would not let me get TRT with the NHS. However, my haematologist has been incredibly supportive, ordering extensive tests to thoroughly examine my iron profile. They are also supportive of my private TRT, provided I stick to a dose that resolves my symptoms without excess.

I asked my hematologist why my ferritin has dropped so significantly, but they weren’t entirely sure. They want to see me again in a year to monitor my progress and keep an eye on my ferrtin as i have the blood disorder.

 

[WhiteMale]

When I asked y provider if a double red would be more effective at reducing my HCT than 1 pint of whole blood I was told yes it should provide an unknown but higher rate of HCT reduction but the Double red interval is twice the 56 days for whole blood. it seemed to just be a wash in better or not, as far as I was concerned. Too I don't want to sit for an hour or so with a needle in each arm.

However moving years ago to topical on the scrotum put me in the needing to donate just once per year vs every 56 days when on (even daily) injections.

Some of the attitude though has changed on HCT.

 

[Fernando Almaguer]

Double red is not "good" for us?