does Iodine influence hormone receptor activity?

[Gman86]

Watch it and laugh?

What does he say in the video that u disagree with?

 

[Gman86]

I was finally able to watch it! good video, he does sound he studied Iodine well and enough. I think @FunkOdyssey should watch it

It does sound like he’s studied idoine quite a bit. What’s more important to me is the anecdotal experiences he’s seen treating his patients with idoine. I value what happens in the real world a lot more than any study. But obv both are very important to consider

 

[Gianluca]

It does sound like he’s studied idoine quite a bit. What’s more important to me is the anecdotal experiences he’s seen treating his patients with idoine. I value what happens in the real world a lot more than any study. But obv both are very important to consider

if you liked him, look into Dr David Browstein work. He and Dr Abhrahim are the pioneers on Iodine. I think anyone else base their clinical work with Iodine mainly on Dr B research and work.

​

 

[Anonymon]

I’m familiar with RestartMed and Westin’s work, though I hadn’t read that article on iodine before by him, and just got done reading the Dr Brownstein book on Iodine.

Although the detox hypothesis might in theory be okay, personally, I do feel that at least in my case, it probably is more related to something closer to iodine poisoning than a detox. Mainly because I’ve had iron poisoning before from excessive supplementation, and there were similar aspects to it on the negative side of things. If it is more related to that, it’s probably that your body needs to adjust to peeing out any excess iodine, and until it does, you’re pushing it out anywhere you can. I have issues with retaining water, so that probably affects my ability to filter anything out.

Either way, there was a lot to like about it, including hair growth which is a tough one for me. I took a break from it, and bought a much lower dose version of it (50mcg per drop) so I can start off a lot lower and see how I do with that and what benefits it might give me. I’ll likely start off with 150mcg per day, which is about the RDA.

I do think most people probably are fine with Lugol’s, but would probably recommend starting their dose closer to how Westin does it, which is taking it infrequently. I can’t recall now the amount he uses, but I think he doses once a week, which for some people might be closer to starting off with a drop a week if you’re not going to water it down like Gianluca did. I don’t have the patience to water it down since it stains easily so if I did try Lugol’s again, which I’m sure I will, I’d probably start off with infrequent dosing, which for a lot of people probably would prevent a detox or poisoning phase or whatever’s going on with it if they are seemingly prone to it like me.

I’d still rate Lugol’s as very promising for me. Only took a few days off of it to mostly be back to normal. I’m not 100% but I’m probably 80%. Probably better for most people to start off with a drop a week or every few days first if they want to avoid whatever happens when you start.

 

[Gianluca]

I’m familiar with RestartMed and Westin’s work, though I hadn’t read that article on iodine before by him, and just got done reading the Dr Brownstein book on Iodine.

Although the detox hypothesis might in theory be okay, personally, I do feel that at least in my case, it probably is more related to something closer to iodine poisoning than a detox. Mainly because I’ve had iron poisoning before from excessive supplementation, and there were similar aspects to it on the negative side of things. If it is more related to that, it’s probably that your body needs to adjust to peeing out any excess iodine, and until it does, you’re pushing it out anywhere you can. I have issues with retaining water, so that probably affects my ability to filter anything out.

Either way, there was a lot to like about it, including hair growth which is a tough one for me. I took a break from it, and bought a much lower dose version of it (50mcg per drop) so I can start off a lot lower and see how I do with that and what benefits it might give me. I’ll likely start off with 150mcg per day, which is about the RDA.

I do think most people probably are fine with Lugol’s, but would probably recommend starting their dose closer to how Westin does it, which is taking it infrequently. I can’t recall now the amount he uses, but I think he doses once a week, which for some people might be closer to starting off with a drop a week if you’re not going to water it down like Gianluca did. I don’t have the patience to water it down since it stains easily so if I did try Lugol’s again, which I’m sure I will, I’d probably start off with infrequent dosing, which for a lot of people probably would prevent a detox or poisoning phase or whatever’s going on with it if they are seemingly prone to it like me.

I’d still rate Lugol’s as very promising for me. Only took a few days off of it to mostly be back to normal. I’m not 100% but I’m probably 80%. Probably better for most people to start off with a drop a week or every few days first if they want to avoid whatever happens when you start.

Another way to see if someone is in Iodine overload, is testing Iodine serum after 24H from last ingestion. Iodine should be excreted by the kidney within 24h.

At the beginning when I was using 2.5mg, after 24h my serum came back low.

Now that I remember, I did start very low with Iodine, from 150mcg of Potassium Iodide, and doubling it every month till Lugols dosages.

 

[Anonymon]

Tried 150mcg but then decided to see how conservative I can be with it and have been doing 50mcg of the iodine + iodide mix daily. It’s very subtle but even with that I can see some benefits, like saliva and sense of taste and smell. Feels more manageable. Before my sense of taste and smell were so heightened or maybe just like a normal person’s that it affected my ability to eat some things. Even the smell of the bowl for a rice cooker was extreme on a high iodine dose, and generally anything metal had an added sensory experience to it that was unpleasant. I’ll go up over time, but at least for me, I think starting off more conservatively is the way to go.

 

[Gianluca]

I guess, I may have found the answer to the question originally made in this thread

according to Guy. E. Abraham M.D, the doctor who have probably done most of the work on Iodine, it does appear that Iodine have an effect of T3 receptor. He found in his work that people need less T3 hormone to achieve hypothyroidism symptoms resolution. There is no data on this to my knowledge, so have to believe, or not believe him. He also state that the steroid hormones receptors may need adequate Iodine as well.

Here his quote from the attached file:
" We have some evidence of improved T3 receptor function in female patients receiving 12.5 mg I/day. T3 and steroid hormones share the same superfamily of receptors for hydrophobic small molecules (60)

for those interested, in the paper there is a section on how they figured out the 12.5mg daily dose that is often recommended by these doctors. I would like to hear comments on this.

 

[Anonymon]

I guess, I may have found the answer to the question originally made in this thread

according to Guy. E. Abraham M.D, the doctor who have probably done most of the work on Iodine, it does appear that Iodine have an effect of T3 receptor. He found in his work that people need less T3 hormone to achieve hypothyroidism symptoms resolution. There is no data on this to my knowledge, so have to believe, or not believe him. He also state that the steroid hormones receptors may need adequate Iodine as well.

Here his quote from the attached file:
" We have some evidence of improved T3 receptor function in female patients receiving 12.5 mg I/day. T3 and steroid hormones share the same superfamily of receptors for hydrophobic small molecules (60)

for those interested, in the paper there is a section on how they figured out the 12.5mg daily dose that is often recommended by these doctors. I would like to hear comments on this.

I’ve played around with T3 and T4 in all directions to have a lot of experience with that. When I was on Lugol’s, although there were many positive aspects to it, it did feel like hyperthyroidism in ways similar to when I took too much T3, although it also brought with it other positive aspects.

Even 150mcg of it in the morning ended up being too much for me. It’s possible that would not be the case if I was on lower amounts of T3 and T4, and I’m trying to come down on T3 anyway, so I’m sure I’ll lab rat myself again at some point.

 

[Gman86]

I guess, I may have found the answer to the question originally made in this thread

according to Guy. E. Abraham M.D, the doctor who have probably done most of the work on Iodine, it does appear that Iodine have an effect of T3 receptor. He found in his work that people need less T3 hormone to achieve hypothyroidism symptoms resolution. There is no data on this to my knowledge, so have to believe, or not believe him. He also state that the steroid hormones receptors may need adequate Iodine as well.

Here his quote from the attached file:
" We have some evidence of improved T3 receptor function in female patients receiving 12.5 mg I/day. T3 and steroid hormones share the same superfamily of receptors for hydrophobic small molecules (60)

for those interested, in the paper there is a section on how they figured out the 12.5mg daily dose that is often recommended by these doctors. I would like to hear comments on this.

Just recently worked my way up to 12.5mg/ day as of 10-8-22. Gonna try and stay on this dose for the long haul. Started at 2.5mg of lugol’s (1 drop of 2%) and increased my dose by 1 drop every 2-3 weeks. So far so good.

How many mg’s are u currently taking each day?

 

[Gianluca]

Just recently worked my way up to 12.5mg/ day as of 10-8-22. Gonna try and stay on this dose for the long haul. Started at 2.5mg of lugol’s (1 drop of 2%) and increased my dose by 1 drop every 2-3 weeks. So far so good.

How many mg’s are u currently taking each day?

same, still at 2.5mg. Are you also on NDT? do you see any benefits from that dose?

I have been doing some more research about Iodine lately. I may have come to a conclusion, that a good enough dose for men may be anywhere from 225mcg to 1 or 3mg, with the best intake at upper end.

I may be wrong, but there has to be a specific reason to go above that dose for long term. However, the kidney should be able to excrete the excess anyway. Women are probably to benefit the best from the 12.5mg standard dose.

I'm also learning that Lugol's should be taken on an empty stomach, I believe the Iodine in it if combined with antioxidant or food, it becomes something else, therefore loosing its best benefits.

I'm also starting to think that Lugol's solution could be used for a specific purpose only, such as in the case of a disease or illness. Iodine in nature comes from potassium iodide, therefore I believe we should ingest potassium iodide, that is why I'm thinking to switch my lugol's with this form of Iodine.

 

[Gman86]

same, still at 2.5mg. Are you also on NDT? do you see any benefits from that dose?

I have been doing some more research about Iodine lately. I may have come to a conclusion, that a good enough dose for men may be anywhere from 225mcg to 1 or 3mg, with the best intake at upper end.

I may be wrong, but there has to be a specific reason to go above that dose for long term. However, the kidney should be able to excrete the excess anyway. Women are probably to benefit the best from the 12.5mg standard dose.

I'm also learning that Lugol's should be taken on an empty stomach, I believe the Iodine in it if combined with antioxidant or food, it becomes something else, therefore loosing its best benefits.

I'm also starting to think that Lugol's solution could be used for a specific purpose only, such as in the case of a disease or illness. Iodine in nature comes from potassium iodide, therefore I believe we should ingest potassium iodide, that is why I'm thinking to switch my lugol's with this form of Iodine.

I’ve been researching iodine on and off for years now, and have also been researching iodine like crazy recently. I thought for a while that 1-3mg was a good dose long term, and it may well be, but through all my research and listening to top experts, and reading anecdotes, it seems like the sweetspot for most people, guys bad girls, might be a little higher at around 6.25mg-12.5mg. And tons of people in the iodine fb groups I’m a part of notice huge improvements when using doses much higher, in the 50mg-300mg range. I believe in balance with all things tho, and am a bit hesitant with using too high of doses with iodine. Don’t want it throwing anything else out of whack. I’ve used 50-100mg/ day before for a decent amount of time, and didn’t notice any negatives, but don’t think I noticed any positives either. I think this time around starting at 2.5mg and titrating up slowly to 12.5mg I noticed some benefits around the 6.25-10mg range. Nothing crazy, just have been getting to bed super super late for a while now, and usually I’d be wrecked after getting so little sleep, and my mood would definitely be off, but on iodine I feel like im doing a lot better than I should be. Like before iodine I’d be irritable and my mood wouldn’t be great after not getting enough sleep, but on the iodine my mood is pretty stable and I don’t feel as bad as I probably should. Idk, hard to explain subtle personality and mood differences when using things, but I’m very in tune with myself, and I feel like I can feel it doing something positive. Other than that I just want it to help things in the background without me even noticing. So not disappointed if I don’t notice much from taking it. Just know that it’s most likely doing good things.

So ur saying that ur thinking of switching from lugol’s to some other formulation of iodine? Lugol’s obv has potassium iodide in it, so why switch? Are u saying u want something with potassium iodide only?

And no, not on anything for my thyroid atm. Just iodine

 

[Gman86]

And I think the main argument for using higher than 225mcg-3mg is basically just to saturate the receptors of the body so bromide can’t attach to them, as well as slowly remove the bromide from ur system. We’re exposed to bromide in so many things nowadays

 

[Gianluca]

I’ve been researching iodine on and off for years now, and have also been researching iodine like crazy recently. I thought for a while that 1-3mg was a good dose long term, and it may well be, but through all my research and listening to top experts, and reading anecdotes, it seems like the sweetspot for most people, guys bad girls, might be a little higher at around 6.25mg-12.5mg. And tons of people in the iodine fb groups I’m a part of notice huge improvements when using doses much higher, in the 50mg-300mg range. I believe in balance with all things tho, and am a bit hesitant with using too high of doses with iodine. Don’t want it throwing anything else out of whack. I’ve used 50-100mg/ day before for a decent amount of time, and didn’t notice any negatives, but don’t think I noticed any positives either. I think this time around starting at 2.5mg and titrating up slowly to 12.5mg I noticed some benefits around the 6.25-10mg range. Nothing crazy, just have been getting to bed super super late for a while now, and usually I’d be wrecked after getting so little sleep, and my mood would definitely be off, but on iodine I feel like im doing a lot better than I should be. Like before iodine I’d be irritable and my mood wouldn’t be great after not getting enough sleep, but on the iodine my mood is pretty stable and I don’t feel as bad as I probably should. Idk, hard to explain subtle personality and mood differences when using things, but I’m very in tune with myself, and I feel like I can feel it doing something positive. Other than that I just want it to help things in the background without me even noticing. So not disappointed if I don’t notice much from taking it. Just know that it’s most likely doing good things.

So ur saying that ur thinking of switching from lugol’s to some other formulation of iodine? Lugol’s obv has potassium iodide in it, so why switch? Are u saying u want something with potassium iodide only?

And no, not on anything for my thyroid atm. Just iodine

same here. I started researching Iodine 2 years ago on an off, but I focused agaiin on it for the past week or so.

what you are saying reflect the dosages proposed by the research of Guy. E. Abraham M.D. He stated that we need 6mg only to saturate the thyroid with Iodine, then women need an extra 8mg to saturate breast tissues, men possibly a little less, unless a man has a big breast! lol.

The Lugol's to my understanding, is basically elemental Iodine, which is not found in nature, and potassium Iodide which is found in nature. I believe the body should convert Iodide to Iodine. My thought would be to ingest potassium Iodide only, since it is the form found in nature. This is why I'm starting to look at Lugol's more like a medicinal form of Iodine.

 

[Gianluca]

@Gman86

Iodine vs. Iodide - What's the Difference? | Magnascent

Let the experts at Magnascent explain everything you need to know about potassium iodide and iodine. Learn the main differences between iodine an iodide here.

magnascent.com

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

Tried Lugol's 2% on and off over the past few years and I don't tolerate it. I was doing 1 drop but after a few days, my body temperature dropped, felt weak and tired. I bought a small bottle of Magnascent last year and it was just there in my stash as I continued to experiment with T3 & T4, never seeing the improvements I experienced 28 years ago when a psychiatrist prescribed Cytomel.

Now trying the Magnascent; 1 drop/350 mcg in a few ounces of water before breakfast. 2nd day, today. I'm trying to alleviate significant cognitive blunting, as well as depression. What I felt, yesterday, a couple hours after taking it, was like my brain waking up; a sense of calm and joy. Lasted 2 or 3 hours. Tried a second dose in the afternoon but didn't experience the same response. I don't want to go overboard, which is my standard operating procedure, since the science part of me knows 'low and slow' is the better way to proceed.

I've read the commentaries of Dr. Brownstein, Dr.Abraham and Dr. Flechas, as well as comments from the late Dr. Albert Szent Gyorgi(Nobel Prize for Vitamin C) stating that when he was in medical school, potassium iodide(KI) was routinely taken in large amounts when one didn't feel well. Dr. Orrian Truss, a physician in Alabama,used large doses of Lugol's to treat a variety of infections and the same with Dr. D.C. Jarvis in Vermont in the early part of the 20th century.

Anecdotally,a guy I've chatted with on Ray Peat Forum told me a friend had developed insomnia, tried all the standard supplement recommendations and somewhere read that 50 mg of Lugol's, along with selenium and magnesium, might restore normal sleep. He tried it and it worked. Same for the guy I was chatting with. I'm uncomfortable(and fearful) with downing 50 mg of Magnascent. The antidote, I read, for a reaction to too much iodine, is 10 g of vitamin C. But, hey; we do enjoy the challenge of pushing the boundaries in search of optimal health and function. Totally worth it.

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

As the song goes 'I Know A Little' but, still, a fascinating read.

JOURNAL ARTICLE

Evolutionary roots of iodine and thyroid hormones in cell–cell signaling​

Susan J. Crockford
Author Notes
Integrative and Comparative Biology, Volume 49, Issue 2, August 2009, Pages 155–166, https://doi.org/10.1093/icb/icp053
Published:

23 June 2009

 

[Gman86]

Tried Lugol's 2% on and off over the past few years and I don't tolerate it. I was doing 1 drop but after a few days, my body temperature dropped, felt weak and tired. I bought a small bottle of Magnascent last year and it was just there in my stash as I continued to experiment with T3 & T4, never seeing the improvements I experienced 28 years ago when a psychiatrist prescribed Cytomel.

Now trying the Magnascent; 1 drop/350 mcg in a few ounces of water before breakfast. 2nd day, today. I'm trying to alleviate significant cognitive blunting, as well as depression. What I felt, yesterday, a couple hours after taking it, was like my brain waking up; a sense of calm and joy. Lasted 2 or 3 hours. Tried a second dose in the afternoon but didn't experience the same response. I don't want to go overboard, which is my standard operating procedure, since the science part of me knows 'low and slow' is the better way to proceed.

I've read the commentaries of Dr. Brownstein, Dr.Abraham and Dr. Flechas, as well as comments from the late Dr. Albert Szent Gyorgi(Nobel Prize for Vitamin C) stating that when he was in medical school, potassium iodide(KI) was routinely taken in large amounts when one didn't feel well. Dr. Orrian Truss, a physician in Alabama,used large doses of Lugol's to treat a variety of infections and the same with Dr. D.C. Jarvis in Vermont in the early part of the 20th century.

Anecdotally,a guy I've chatted with on Ray Peat Forum told me a friend had developed insomnia, tried all the standard supplement recommendations and somewhere read that 50 mg of Lugol's, along with selenium and magnesium, might restore normal sleep. He tried it and it worked. Same for the guy I was chatting with. I'm uncomfortable(and fearful) with downing 50 mg of Magnascent. The antidote, I read, for a reaction to too much iodine, is 10 g of vitamin C. But, hey; we do enjoy the challenge of pushing the boundaries in search of optimal health and function. Totally worth it.

Glad that this form of nascent iodine seems to be working for u so far. How many drops did u try when u used the 2% lugol’s?

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

Glad that this form of nascent iodine seems to be working for u so far. How many drops did u try when u used the 2% lugol’s?

Probably 2.25 mg/1 drop. When I started having a negative reaction, it felt like an adrenal crash, maybe from the potassium iodide. On my second day with nascent iodine, about two hours after ingesting, I felt my mood smooth out. Not hyper, just calm, no negative thoughts/feelings. Feeling good. Went shopping. When I came home, ate lunch; rice, with a mix of some canned salmon and canned chicken. After eating and washing the dishes, sat on the couch and quickly fell asleep, though that wasn't my intent. Ray Peat has written that's an indication of a low level of stress hormones. That would be nice, since my wife continues her decline from dementia and I'm her caregiver. Evening/nighttime,not that relaxed. Have to take .5 to .75 mg of clonazepam, even when I have a snack. I'll eat what I had for lunch, tonight, before I go to bed.

 

[Gman86]

Probably 2.25 mg/1 drop. When I started having a negative reaction, it felt like an adrenal crash, maybe from the potassium iodide. On my second day with nascent iodine, about two hours after ingesting, I felt my mood smooth out. Not hyper, just calm, no negative thoughts/feelings. Feeling good. Went shopping. When I came home, ate lunch; rice, with a mix of some canned salmon and canned chicken. After eating and washing the dishes, sat on the couch and quickly fell asleep, though that wasn't my intent. Ray Peat has written that's an indication of a low level of stress hormones. That would be nice, since my wife continues her decline from dementia and I'm her caregiver. Evening/nighttime,not that relaxed. Have to take .5 to .75 mg of clonazepam, even when I have a snack. I'll eat what I had for lunch, tonight, before I go to bed.

So what exactly is nascent iodine? Like what form of iodine is in it?

Isn’t the potassium iodide in lugol’s the natural form found in nature, and iodine is the form not found in nature? Would think u would tolerate the natural form of iodine better

Do u get a good amount of selenium in ur diet? To tolerate iodine there’s actually quite a few cofactors u need to make sure ur getting enough of. Mainly selenium and magnesium, but also most of the B vitamins and vitamin C, from my understanding

 

[Gianluca]

So what exactly is nascent iodine? Like what form of iodine is in it?

Isn’t the potassium iodide in lugol’s the natural form found in nature, and iodine is the form not found in nature? Would think u would tolerate the natural form of iodine better

Do u get a good amount of selenium in ur diet? To tolerate iodine there’s actually quite a few cofactors u need to make sure ur getting enough of. Mainly selenium and magnesium, but also most of the B vitamins and vitamin C, from my understanding

so, I did a little bit more of digging here, we are probably overthinking this to much, but:

it seems that Iodide relies on the Sodium-Iodide-Transporter (NIS) system to be delivered to the cells, NIS is increased by TSH, and this is why when someone is deficient in Iodine, and start taking a good amount of it, TSH goes up and stay up for a while.

But Iodine, does not relies on NIS to be delivered to tissues. The point is that, there may be chemicals in the environment, or some gene mutation that either blunt or possibly block conversion of Iodide to Iodine, or the NIS system itself. This is probably why those practitioner who use Iodine, have better outcome with a combination of Iodide/Iodine to treat a particular issue.

Iodine is needed for breast tissue and prostate tissue, plus some more.
Iodide for thyroid, skin, salivary glands and probably other glands too.

At the end, it never changes the fact that we need to try and see how it works for us in real life.

Iodine Uptake and Prostate Cancer in the TRAMP Mouse Model - PMC

Iodine supplementation exerts antitumor effects in several types of cancer. Iodide (I−) and iodine (I2) reduce cell proliferation and induce apoptosis in human prostate cancer cells (LNCaP and DU-145). Both chemical species decrease tumor growth in ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The Biology of the Sodium Iodide Symporter and its Potential for Targeted Gene Delivery - PMC

The sodium iodide symporter (NIS) is responsible for thyroidal, salivary, gastric, intestinal and mammary iodide uptake. It was first cloned from the rat in 1996 and shortly thereafter from human and mouse tissue. In the intervening years, we have ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov