Does HCG suppress to the same extent as exogenous testosterone? I want to take HCG for fertility reasons, but when I come off, will have low T levels?

[JCUSN]

I want to run HCG in order to improve my fertility numbers. I’ve got 3 10,000iu bottles of HCG that my doctor prescribed for me, but I’m concerned that taking this will suppress my own testosterone production…leaving me low T or a need for a “PCT” once I stop the HCG injections.

Am I off base on this? Will suppression from HCG not be the same as it is for exogenous T injections?

 

[sammmy]

If injecting HCG leads to the same level circulating testosterone as TRT, it should suppress the LH and FSH (pituitary hormones), just like TRT. The only difference is that with HCG, you are producing the testosterone in the testes instead of injecting it.

After you stop HCG, your pituitary should sense low circulating testosterone and should boost LH and FSH, which will stimulate testes to produce testosterone, just like HCG did before that. Short HCG or TRT leading to normal testosterone levels should not shut you down forever and you don't need PCT for the body to recover normal testosterone production.

 

[JCUSN]

If injecting HCG leads to the same level circulating testosterone as TRT, it should suppress the LH and FSH (pituitary hormones), just like TRT. The only difference is that with HCG, you are producing the testosterone in the testes instead of injecting it.

After you stop HCG, your pituitary should sense low circulating testosterone and should boost LH and FSH, which will stimulate testes to produce testosterone, just like HCG did before that. Short HCG or TRT leading to normal testosterone levels should not shut you down forever and you don't need PCT for the body to recover normal testosterone production.

Thanks for this detailed reply!

When I previously stopped TRT, it too months and months of very low T (levels in the 100s) before my body finally recovered. That's when I was taking Test-C for about 2 years. Would taking HCG at 500iu EOD for 2-3 months cause the same degree of shut down, and result in such a drastic drop in T levels for months (like what I had with Test Cyp injections)?

Would HMG also cause the same response in the body? Would ceasing HMG cause testosterone levels to crash also?

 

[sammmy]

500iu HCG EOD is a mild dose and probably will recover faster after stopping. The expected increase in total testosterone is about 200 ng/dL while on it.

 

[JCUSN]

500iu HCG EOD is a mild dose and probably will recover faster after stopping. The expected increase in total testosterone is about 200 ng/dL while on it.

I’m wondering if the 500iu EOD is even worth taking. My doctor said I could go as far as 2000iu EOD, but I’m afraid of the increased E2 I’d get from that. I’m just wanting to restore my fertility to what it what a couple years. My semen analysis comes back with low-ish concentration and very low semen volume. Doctors haven’t been a ton of help, until this doctor agreed to at least prescribe me HCG.

 

[sammmy]

It depends on your desired improvement and only testing can answer that. Increase of 200 ng/dL in total testosterone is not insignificant.

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

Thanks for this detailed reply!

When I previously stopped TRT, it too months and months of very low T (levels in the 100s) before my body finally recovered. That's when I was taking Test-C for about 2 years. Would taking HCG at 500iu EOD for 2-3 months cause the same degree of shut down, and result in such a drastic drop in T levels for months (like what I had with Test Cyp injections)?

Would HMG also cause the same response in the body? Would ceasing HMG cause testosterone levels to crash also?

Recovering from HCG should in theory be easier than recovering from Test Cyp since Test shuts down LH and T production whereas HCG only shuts down LH production. A low dose of clomid or enclomiphene might speed the LH recovery and reduce T shutdown by shortening the time during which your LH would be low without HCG to stimulate your own T production. There are some in the AAS world who advocate for HCG for this exact reason.

 

[JCUSN]

Recovering from HCG should in theory be easier than recovering from Test Cyp since Test shuts down LH and T production whereas HCG only shuts down LH production. A low dose of clomid or enclomiphene might speed the LH recovery and reduce T shutdown by shortening the time during which your LH would be low without HCG to stimulate your own T production. There are some in the AAS world who advocate for HCG for this exact reason.

The only thing with Clomid is the vision side effects. I experienced them before and they actually never resolved. Does enclomiphene not have those sides? I didn’t think enclomiphene was authorized for prescription in the US.

 

[MTNMan6000]

Does HCG shut down HPTA?

 

[JCUSN]

Does HCG shut down HPTA?

Yes it does.

 

[sammmy]

Improvement in human semen quality after oral supplementation of vitamin C - PubMed

This study was carried out to monitor the effect of oral supplementation of vitamin C on various semen parameters in oligospermic, infertile, otherwise healthy individuals. Various semen parameters, including sperm motility, sperm count, and sperm morphology, were studied before and after the...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

AFAIK en

The only thing with Clomid is the vision side effects. I experienced them before and they actually never resolved. Does enclomiphene not have those sides? I didn’t think enclomiphene was authorized for prescription in the US.

AFAIK enclomiphene is still available but perhaps it was withdrawn. I haven't been following that topic. It doesn't sound like it is worth the risk for you, however even so, HCG would be less suppressive by far than T.

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

Does HCG shut down HPTA?

It shuts down LH production but it does not shut down (and may improve ) T production.

 

[JCUSN]

It shuts down LH production but it does not shut down (and may improve ) T production.

Just to clarify, this will shut down or interfere with the HPTA, as LH comes from the pituitary. Will it not?

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

Just to clarify, this will shut down or interfere with the HPTA, as LH comes from the pituitary. Will it not?

Partially. The testes are considered part of the HPTA and it does not shut those down, so it is not correct to say that the shutdown is complete or equivalent to the shutdown from T alone.

 

[Jntsrgn]

I’m wondering if the 500iu EOD is even worth taking. My doctor said I could go as far as 2000iu EOD, but I’m afraid of the increased E2 I’d get from that. I’m just wanting to restore my fertility to what it what a couple years. My semen analysis comes back with low-ish concentration and very low semen volume. Doctors haven’t been a ton of help, until this doctor agreed to at least prescribe me HCG.

My protocol is Test Cyp .1ml (20mg), HCG 250 IU, HMG 75IU on Mon, Wed, Fri. I have a total T in the 1100's and 40 million normal sperm.

 

[JCUSN]

My protocol is Test Cyp .1ml (20mg), HCG 250 IU, HMG 75IU on Mon, Wed, Fri. I have a total T in the 1100's and 40 million normal sperm.

You only take 60mg if test per week!? Wow!
The HMG I am struggling to find for a decent price. 75iu 3x a week would cost me SO much every month. Why take both HCG and HMG?

 

[Jntsrgn]

You only take 60mg if test per week!? Wow!
The HMG I am struggling to find for a decent price. 75iu 3x a week would cost me SO much every month. Why take both HCG and HMG?

Yes. I have a significant response from hCG raising my testosterone level so I don’t need very much exogenous testosterone. HCG will help maintain your ball size, but you really cannot maintain normal fertility and sperm parameters without FSH. I get my Menopur through Alto Pharmacy with a prescription. Once my deductible is met, it’s covered and very reasonably priced. I’m going to tinker with lowering the hCG and FSH even further. It may just be my own physiology, but I think those are overdosed and we don’t need as much as you think. I have some labs pending, and I will share them as soon as they’re back.

 

[DixieWrecked]

Yes. I have a significant response from hCG raising my testosterone level so I don’t need very much exogenous testosterone. HCG will help maintain your ball size, but you really cannot maintain normal fertility and sperm parameters without FSH. I get my Menopur through Alto Pharmacy with a prescription. Once my deductible is met, it’s covered and very reasonably priced. I’m going to tinker with lowering the hCG and FSH even further. It may just be my own physiology, but I think those are overdosed and we don’t need as much as you think. I have some labs pending, and I will share them as soon as they’re back.

I think this is the optimal way to go if it works. More people should try this approach.

 

[DixieWrecked]

You only take 60mg if test per week!? Wow!
The HMG I am struggling to find for a decent price. 75iu 3x a week would cost me SO much every month. Why take both HCG and HMG?

Isn't 40 million an insane amount of sperm? Super high?