Discouraged with TRT

[Melody68]

Hmmm...it seems like the new clear option (bimix/trimix) should be in the discussion here.

I'd be willing to discuss it. I've read about bimix/trimix here and it certainly is interesting . . . what reason would men have to replace viagra with the mix? Does it work better? I need the viagra because I've got some compromised blood vessel issues (had a heart bypass 12 years ago, and am prone to plaque build-up). The viagra works ok, but I'm not as stiff as a surf board, which is a feeling I miss (and I'm thinking my wife does too). Sometimes the viagra is a bit hit and miss. Could the mix work better? What's the difference between the bimix and the trimix? Will a doctor prescribe it? Or would my GP think I'm nuts?

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

I'll let the people who use it here respond in detail (there are many threads covering it) but it is much stronger than viagra (sometimes dangerously so). The people who use it seem to love it but it can apparently be psychologically addictive so it is not the first thing to try. IMO it is best to work with a clinic like Defy that prescribes it all the time. There was a user here (Virginian) who used it over 1000 times. Bimix has two compounds instead of three, does not need to be refrigerated, and seems to be better tolerated for some, so it seems like the place to start.

 

[Forty2]

A few ideas for you:
- DHEA helps many of us
- Vitamin C and Garlic can't hurt and seem to help. I take about 1.5 grams of vitamin C per day and swallow two garlic clove bits. Also, smoking drastically reduces the body's Vitamin C level and C is crucial for blood vessel health among other things. You likely need more C given your smoking. Consider switching to nicotine lozenges. Apparently a lot of the mechnism for the damage from cigs is Vitamin C depletion.
- A good nitric oxide supplement. I use N1o1 but beet root powder is worth a try
- You might try cutting your T dose. A simple way to tell if that may help is to just go off of the T for a week and see what happens.
- Check out the threads on PT-141
- Sprinting or sled pushing!!! No one wants to do it but I have noticed a clear EQ benefit when I do a HIIT workout
- Do at least 10 mins per day of treadmill walking at 4 MPH and full incline. Add in more from there but at least do that.
- PT-141 as described in other threads
- A low dose of Chasteberry every other day may help if prolactin is part of your problem.
- If you are a DHT responder, proviron or masteron at a low dose may help.

Try HCG, but more importantly, don't put conditions on what solutions you will accept. If you have to inject ten things, so be it. You're trying to do something which is far from easy and it will be crucial for you and your GF's quality of life going forward, so you have to have a mentality of doing absolutely whatever it takes and trying everything you possibly can, and anything that is counter to your goal has to go. Period. On a similar note, the cancer sticks have to go. You can't undermine your chances of success with counterproductive things, and cigs are well-known to damage the endothelium which is the exact opposite of what you want.

Why swallow the garlic cloves whole?

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

I was doing that based on Dr. Gundry's suggestion, however I recently saw something that said some of the beneficial compounds are released when they are cut, so in the last few days I have switched to cutting them up and swallowing them. I'm not sure which is best.

 

[Gman86]

I was doing that based on Dr. Gundry's suggestion, however I recently saw something that said some of the beneficial compounds are released when they are cut, so in the last few days I have switched to cutting them up and swallowing them. I'm not sure which is best.

I’ve heard the same years ago. Just googled it and this pretty much sums up what I had read before. Think ur supposed to crush it and let it sit for a couple mins before swallowing/ eating. I assume to let the chemical process that forms the allicin do its thing

“Agitating garlic causes allicin to form, you have to cut it, or better–grate it. If you swallow whole bulbs without cutting, allicin will not form. You can, however, mechanically activate the production of allicin by chewing it raw with your teeth.”

 

[Melody68]

The absolute best is chewing raw garlic, thus releasing the compounds directly into your mouth. When my son was a toddler, he would get a cold turning to bronchitis turning to pneumonia, a process that happened routinely and at least 6 times before the age of 4. Each time the doctor gave him antibiotics. I knew the seventh time was coming and I didn't just want another prescription. I read in a book by Julian Whitaker that eating raw garlic was the way to go; but I knew my 4 year old wouldn't like eating 2-3 big cloves a day. So I agreed to eat the same with him - we chopped up the clove into smaller bits and "hid" them in mashed potatoes. It really wasn't bad, in fact we got to like it that way. It became a habit to this day in our household . . . and I kid you not, my son never got a cold again from the age of 4 to at least 25. When I mentioned it to my doctor, he pooh-poohed the whole thing . . .

 

[Gman86]

The absolute best is chewing raw garlic, thus releasing the compounds directly into your mouth. When my son was a toddler, he would get a cold turning to bronchitis turning to pneumonia, a process that happened routinely and at least 6 times before the age of 4. Each time the doctor gave him antibiotics. I knew the seventh time was coming and I didn't just want another prescription. I read in a book by Julian Whitaker that eating raw garlic was the way to go; but I knew my 4 year old wouldn't like eating 2-3 big cloves a day. So I agreed to eat the same with him - we chopped up the clove into smaller bits and "hid" them in mashed potatoes. It really wasn't bad, in fact we got to like it that way. It became a habit to this day in our household . . . and I kid you not, my son never got a cold again from the age of 4 to at least 25. When I mentioned it to my doctor, he pooh-poohed the whole thing . . .

So how many cloves of garlic would u chop up into the mashed potatoes, and how many days in a row would u do it for?

 

[Melody68]

Hi Gman, we found that the mashed potatoes would disguise the strong taste of the garlic; I'm not sure of the quantity that my wife would cut the garlic into, but suffice it to say that we chose to "saturate" as much as possible . . . because we were worried about my son's health. I'm certain that in a regular serving (even for a 4 year old), he would have at least two cloves in his portion, I might have gotten three. We probably eat/ate such a dish every other day at least, and it became a habit that we carried through to adulthood. I myself, can say with confidence that I have not had a cold since that time, and we started that habit 34 years ago.

His breathing with bronchitis and pneumonia was terrifying for anyone to hear. After starting the garlic, he didn't get sick again, he thrived. Today at 38 he's a neurologist, and from time to time I have to remind him that it's not all about science; that in fact we brought him through some great difficulty . . . with mashed potatoes and garlic, ha!

 

[Gman86]

Hi Gman, we found that the mashed potatoes would disguise the strong taste of the garlic; I'm not sure of the quantity that my wife would cut the garlic into, but suffice it to say that we chose to "saturate" as much as possible . . . because we were worried about my son's health. I'm certain that in a regular serving (even for a 4 year old), he would have at least two cloves in his portion, I might have gotten three. We probably eat/ate such a dish every other day at least, and it became a habit that we carried through to adulthood. I myself, can say with confidence that I have not had a cold since that time, and we started that habit 34 years ago.

His breathing with bronchitis and pneumonia was terrifying for anyone to hear. After starting the garlic, he didn't get sick again, he thrived. Today at 38 he's a neurologist, and from time to time I have to remind him that it's not all about science; that in fact we brought him through some great difficulty . . . with mashed potatoes and garlic, ha!

Hahah love it! Oh so u guys just ended up doing that as a regular thing, sick or not? I thought u meant u continued to do it indefinitely, but only when sick. I actually had chronic bronchitis as a kid, and I can feel that it has definitely permanently affected my lungs. There’s few people out there that understand the harm that antibiotics do, more than me. So I will absolutely be implemented this! Obv antibiotics have their place, and save lives, but I stand by my statement. Antibiotics wreak absolute havoc on the human body. I look at them like a mild form of chemo. Does chemo save lives, of course. Does it wreak absolute havoc on the body in the reprocess? Absolutely. Antibiotics do something similar. So I personally avoid them like the plague, and obv want my kids to get as few doses of the stuff as humanly possible. So will absolutely be implementing this garlic trick. Thanks again for sharing it!

 

[Melody68]

Hahah love it! Oh so u guys just ended up doing that as a regular thing, sick or not? I thought u meant u continued to do it indefinitely, but only when sick. I actually had chronic bronchitis as a kid, and I can feel that it has definitely permanently affected my lungs. There’s few people out there that understand the harm that antibiotics do, more than me. So I will absolutely be implemented this! Obv antibiotics have their place, and save lives, but I stand by my statement. Antibiotics wreak absolute havoc on the human body. I look at them like a mild form of chemo. Does chemo save lives, of course. Does it wreak absolute havoc on the body in the reprocess? Absolutely. Antibiotics do something similar. So I personally avoid them like the plague, and obv want my kids to get as few doses of the stuff as humanly possible. So will absolutely be implementing this garlic trick. Thanks again for sharing it!

Yes, we got so used to the taste that we started to like it, and chose to continue it whenever we eat mashed potatoes, which is often. My wife will make a pot; once it's done she'll cut up to an entire bulb of garlic into it and then serve. I've read a lot about garlic; it seems to be a gift to mankind if we were smart enough to utilize it. Certainly if lung congestion is an issue, then it's the first thing that people should consume, and in big quantities.

 

[Gman86]

Yes, we got so used to the taste that we started to like it, and chose to continue it whenever we eat mashed potatoes, which is often. My wife will make a pot; once it's done she'll cut up to an entire bulb of garlic into it and then serve. I've read a lot about garlic; it seems to be a gift to mankind if we were smart enough to utilize it. Certainly if lung congestion is an issue, then it's the first thing that people should consume, and in big quantities.

I’m absolutely sold. Will definitely be grabbing fresh garlic next time I go shopping!

Also, do u ever get comments that u smell like garlic? Lol. Just read a Reddit thread and the guy said he’s noticed amazing benefits from eating 2-3 pieces of garlic per day, but people around him are commenting that he smells like garlic. I remember years again when I was eating raw turmeric daily, I ended up smelling like it, and it was not good. I stopped eating it for that reason actually. Here’s the Reddit thread I was referencing

https://www.reddit.com/r/Garlic/comments/s3vks2/ive_been_eating_raw_garlic_for_a_month_halp

 

[Melody68]

I don't know much about it's use for nasal congestion, but I would try it.

My parents, from Germany, didn't cook with garlic. When I mentioned to my father, however, that I was eating it together with my son to hopefully cure him, he spoke to me about his father (my grandfather) who was a soldier in World War One. Infection was a huge problem at that time. He said that all the German soldiers would carry a few cloves of garlic with them and were instructed to crush the garlic in the event of being wounded, and then rub the mash onto and into the wound. It would act as an antiseptic to prevent infection, and proved to be quite effective. My grandfather was shot in the leg, followed instructions and recovered.

Years later, in the early thirties, that same grandfather cut his hand working on his farm, but continued to work and finish the day. His hand got infected; my father, a policeman at the time and familiar with the town physicians, begged him to see a doctor, but he wouldn't do it; he didn't trust doctors. My father said the hand looked terrible, so bad that he couldn't look at it (and that's saying a lot about how bad that hand must have been). But my grandfather applied garlic to the hand in the day, and in the evening he exposed it to maggots. My father was certain his stubborn father would lose his hand, but it recovered and got better.

Truly a wonderful medicine . . .

 

[Gman86]

I don't know much about it's use for nasal congestion, but I would try it.

My parents, from Germany, didn't cook with garlic. When I mentioned to my father, however, that I was eating it together with my son to hopefully cure him, he spoke to me about his father (my grandfather) who was a soldier in World War One. Infection was a huge problem at that time. He said that all the German soldiers would carry a few cloves of garlic with them and were instructed to crush the garlic in the event of being wounded, and then rub the mash onto and into the wound. It would act as an antiseptic to prevent infection, and proved to be quite effective. My grandfather was shot in the leg, followed instructions and recovered.

Years later, in the early thirties, that same grandfather cut his hand working on his farm, but continued to work and finish the day. His hand got infected; my father, a policeman at the time and familiar with the town physicians, begged him to see a doctor, but he wouldn't do it; he didn't trust doctors. My father said the hand looked terrible, so bad that he couldn't look at it (and that's saying a lot about how bad that hand must have been). But my grandfather applied garlic to the hand in the day, and in the evening he exposed it to maggots. My father was certain his stubborn father would lose his hand, but it recovered and got better.

Truly a wonderful medicine . . .

Holy sh*t, those are some stories/ anecdotes right there! Lol. I’m all about using natural methods to heal the body/ keep it optimal, so I’m definitely gonna take these anecdotes into consideration going forward for sure! If being in the healthcare field for almost 20 years, and a nurse for 12 of them, has taught me anything, it’s that I want to avoid using synthetic man made pharmaceutical interventions, that disrupt the natural processes of the body, as much as I possibly can. Will absolutely be keeping bulbs of garlic in the house at all times from here on out! Again, can’t thank u enough for these anecdotes/ info. Extremely helpful and appreciated!!

 

[Joseywales95]

Can't contribute much as I am on the same boat. My erection quality even with ED meds on trt is about 60% of the erection strength off trt. I've tried mutiple protocols as well ranging from 80-200 test per week adding hcg etc. Without TRT, my levels are low 300s but no issues with erection strength.

Wish I could have my cake and eat it too because on trt my energy and brainfog disappear.

 

[Cataceous]

... I've tried multiple protocols as well ranging from 80-200 test per week adding hcg etc. Without TRT, my levels are low 300s but no issues with erection strength.
...

You're suspecting that lower T is better for erections, but on TRT you've stuck to higher-end dosing? You're getting a lot of misguided advice to do so when you should really be curious about what would happen with — divided — doses in the range of 40-80 mg TC/week. This range has a decent chance of including the equivalent of your optimal natural production, given that the overall natural production range is equivalent to 30-90 mg TC/week. While many see improvements with lower doses, in some cases the problem is likely related to TRT's disruption of the HPTA and other hormones, and is harder to fix.

 

[Matthew11659]

So Im looking for some advice.

Ive been on TRT for almost a year now (100mg once a week IM) and honestly Im not feeling any better then before test. As of my last labs here is where Im at. I will be starting sub Q at 100mg once a week since my doc is retiring and I havent found a new doc as of yet. The one thing I will say is my libido is thru the roof and it is very frustrating because of my other issues.

Tesosterone---622 ng/dl
Free Tesosterone---2.4 ng/dl (High)
Dihydrotesterone---361.2 pg/mL
SHB---16 nmol/L

I have suffered from ED hence the reason for starting test. I have been on Tadalafil 5mg per day for the last 120 days which seemed to help with the ED but lately it doesnt appear to be helping much. When I do get an erection it seems to take forever to climax (Approx 30 minutes or longer). I sometimes feel this prolonged climax issue could be causing me to loose the erection during intercourse.

So my questions are, could the TRT be causing loss of sensation in my penis causing the prolonged orgasm? Im 56 in decent shape and not ready to stop having sex!

If I was to stop taking TRT what would be the best route in coming off of it? Cold Turkey or reduce injection amounts over time? Im starting to research natural supplements to help with these issues. Any suggestions on what to look at?

Im seriously considering L-Citrulline in addition to the Taladafil to help with the ED in the meantime while deciding on continuing TRT or not.

I would appreciate any ideas, real life experiences, or advice.

Many Thanks, Dave

Dave, low T accounts for only 20% of ED. 80% is due to inadequate blood flow or blood supply. Tadalafil & Sildenafil expand the blood vessels over hours to allow more blood to engorge the penis, but eventually, they, too, fade in their effect. I suggest looking into the 'P' shot and/or shockwave (tradename Gainswave) therapy which creates new blood vessels in the penis to allow for greater engorgement and better tumescence (hardness). If you cannot find a practitioner in your area, my practice is in Hershey, PA.
Dr. Matt

 

[Joseywales95]

You're suspecting that lower T is better for erections, but on TRT you've stuck to higher-end dosing? You're getting a lot of misguided advice to do so when you should really be curious about what would happen with — divided — doses in the range of 40-80 mg TC/week. This range has a decent chance of including the equivalent of your optimal natural production, given that the overall natural production range is equivalent to 30-90 mg TC/week. While many see improvements with lower doses, in some cases the problem is likely related to TRT's disruption of the HPTA and other hormones, and is harder to fix.

Thanks for the reply. I tried 77mg per week pinning daily and did not see any relief or change on erection quality.

I done everything from daily, EOD, twice a week. I seem to be a low aromatizer and have high SHGB.

Below was my last bloodwork on 120mg of Test c Pinned M,W,F. Would appreciate any advice.

Test - 1067
Test Free - 30
Test % - 2.81
E2 SENSTIVE - 29.2
prolactin - 10.2
SHBG - 51.4

I guess my next experiment I will try to go down to 60mg. Would you suggest adding in HCG as well?

 

[Cataceous]

...
I guess my next experiment I will try to go down to 60mg. Would you suggest adding in HCG as well?

It's worth trying. I would use the hCG, though to start with I'd see if you could get by with 250 IU a couple times a week. Bear in mind that if you're cutting your dose in half cold-turkey then you may well feel hypogonadal for some time. You need to ride this out before evaluating the results. If nothing changes with lower doses then there are other things to try, but they are more complicated.

 

[NitricOxideNutritionDoc]

Your total t is fine. Your DHT should be at least 10x your total t though.

Also, your free t is WAY low. It should be 10% of your total t.

 

[NitricOxideNutritionDoc]

I was doing that based on Dr. Gundry's suggestion, however I recently saw something that said some of the beneficial compounds are released when they are cut, so in the last few days I have switched to cutting them up and swallowing them. I'm not sure which is best.