DIM; Good or Bad to Modulate Estradiol?

[MarkM]

I've read that many on TRT supplement with DIM but just as many do not utilize it. Some believe it to be an estrogen blocker and others believe they haven't received any benefit from it. It may be one of those supplements where "YMMV" depending on your views and or results from supplementing with it. I was supplementing with DIM and I3C (Indole-3-Carbinol) to help manage estradiol but have stopped until I can do a little more research.

I recently listened to a podcast by ATP Science that claimed DIM was an androgen antagonist. Has anyone else have knowledge either way on whether or not it is proper to use DIM and or I3C to help modulate estradiol? I know that Dr. Crisler recommends it to many of his patients.


Here is a link to the podcast I am referring to: Don't be a DIM Wit! https://atpscience.com/podcasts/episode-59-dont-dim-wit/

• DIM is an androgen antagonist
• DIM as an anti-estrogen
• DIM is a phytoestrogen
• DIM block mTOR

Summary:

• DIM is a testosterone blocker and not an estrogen blocker
• DIM is a phytoestrogen and not an anti-estrogen
• DIM blocks mTOR and subsequently inhibits growth
• Very low doses of DIM as found as a component of foods with the necessary cofactors works in the gut and liver to manipulate estrogen detox and support healthy estrogen metabolite ratios to prevent estrogen dominance
• DIM is commonly prescribed by healthcare professionals to aid in the treatment of testosterone induced cancers and other disorders of excessive testosterone such as PCOS, hirsutism, acne

 

[Vince]

This is my favorite thread on DIM, It even made me buy some. I never used it, I was afraid it would lower my estradiol. Maybe Healthman will respond.

I started taking DIM (2 capsules a day - DIM plus from Nature's way) and my libido went through the roof (it was already good before starting DIM). So i stopped and resumed a few times to see if it was the DIM responsible for the boost in libido and it seems like it is.

So if you have your lab work looking great but no libido maybe something to try.

​

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?13585-Huge-increase-in-libido-with-DIM

 

[HealthMan]

In my experience DIM doesn’t per se lower estradiol. However it favors the production of more favorable estrogen metabolites thus potentially helping with high estradiol symptoms. However I would say it only works if you estradiol levels are just a bit off. If you need a significant reduction in estradiol you have other options: use an AI, reduce your testosterone/HCG dosage, inject more frequently.
DIM has a benefitial impact on my libido and while taking DIM + Calcium D Glucarate + Zinc and reducing my testosterone dosage my estradiol levels where withing normal range (close to the upper range). However i am a lowish SHBG person and very sensitive to estradiol (despite normal estradiol my free estradiol is high). So I end up having to resume taking anastrozole at a very small dosage to avoid gyno. I am currently taking 0.125mg twice a week.
Soon i will check my HCT to see if it is still stable after I reduced my dosage. If not I will further reduce my testosterone dosage and cut down on anastrozole or maybe even eliminate it altogether.

 

[HealthMan]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3048776/

 

[MarkM]

Thank you for your input and experience HealthMan!

 

[Gman86]

I've also wondered this about things that naturally lower E2. I've been suspicious about their effects on testosterone. I wish they would test testosterone in all these studies. I know most of these supplements improve E2 metabolism, not so much actually lower E2, but if something like DIM did actually lower E2, I'd be curious to see if it was from it lowering testosterone which would obv result in lower E2

Im sure people on this forum by now can tell I love verifying things through blood work, so I'm curious, has anyone ever taken supplements to lower E2 and monitored whether they have any effect on their testosterone or not?

Im currently trying to lower my E2 naturally, and eating a lot of mushrooms, guava, greens like arugula, kale and spinach, carrots, celery and oranges. And if anything I've noticed a decrease in libido and erection quality. So just makes me wonder.

 

[MarkM]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3048776/

Interesting study. I wonder if DIM would have similar affects in men? We know that some items that react differently depending on the gender. My estradiol levels are in the upper range of normal. I take Calcium D Glucarate and Zinc as well and I do not use an AI. My SHBG levels and about mid-range. I don't really need the DIM to lower estradiol levels but I don't want them inching upward either.

Thanks again for your input.

 

[Gman86]

Have you noticed any difference while taking Calcium D Glucarate and Zinc, either subjectively or on blood work, in regards to E2?

 

[MarkM]

Have you noticed any difference while taking Calcium D Glucarate and Zinc, either subjectively or on blood work, in regards to E2?

I just started taking both about 5 weeks ago. I really do not feel any different and my next blood work will be in about three weeks.

 

[Gman86]

Thanks for the quick reply. Definitely let us know if it makes any differences on your bloodwork.

 

[MarkM]

Thanks for the quick reply. Definitely let us know if it makes any differences on your bloodwork.

I'll do that. I've read that taking the Calcium D Glucarate won't make a huge difference in estradiol (sensitive, of course) but it could possibly lower your levels between 5 and 10 points. That's all I'd really like to see in a reduction anyway and for some people might make a difference in how they feel.

 

[HealthMan]

I’ve also wondered this about things that naturally lower E2. I’ve been suspicious about their effects on testosterone. I wish they would test testosterone in all these studies. I know most of these supplements improve E2 metabolism, not so much actually lower E2, but if something like DIM did actually lower E2, I’d be curious to see if it was from it lowering testosterone which would obv result in lower E2

Im sure people on this forum by now can tell I love verifying things through blood work, so I’m curious, has anyone ever taken supplements to lower E2 and monitored whether they have any effect on their testosterone or not?

Im currently trying to lower my E2 naturally, and eating a lot of mushrooms, guava, greens like arugula, kale and spinach, carrots, celery and oranges. And if anything I’ve noticed a decrease in libido and erection quality. So just makes me wonder.

If you are on TRT you most likely don’t need to worry about any effects of DIM on testosterone. Remember that you are injecting exogenous testosterone so common mechanisms that lower testosterone do not apply while on TRT

 

[HealthMan]

Thank you for your input and experience HealthMan!

Anytime MarkM

 

[Gman86]

Ya that's a good point

 

[Vince]

Some members have posted that boron has helped lower their estradiol levels. I supplement with 3 mg twice a day.

 

[Gman86]

Have you had E2 tested while on boron Vince? I know I sound like a hypochondriac lol, but I've read on two different occasions with two different men that they had E2 tested after supplementing with boron, and their E2 actually went up!

I started supplementing with boron a couple weeks ago, but stopped after reading those two guys' stories. All the studies I read about boron says that it lowers E2 and lowers SHBG, so those two guys' experiences were probably anomalies, but it was enough to make me a little scared to mess with it.

So did those members you were talking about really see a reduction in E2 after supplementing with boron? I still have a bunch of Borax, I would love to be able to try supplementing with it again if enough people have verified that it can in fact lower E2, or SHBG, or both ideally.

 

[FeelingLost]

Have you had E2 tested while on boron Vince? I know I sound like a hypochondriac lol, but I've read on two different occasions with two different men that they had E2 tested after supplementing with boron, and their E2 actually went up!

I started supplementing with boron a couple weeks ago, but stopped after reading those two guys' stories. All the studies I read about boron says that it lowers E2 and lowers SHBG, so those two guys' experiences were probably anomalies, but it was enough to make me a little scared to mess with it.

So did those members you were talking about really see a reduction in E2 after supplementing with boron? I still have a bunch of Borax, I would love to be able to try supplementing with it again if enough people have verified that it can in fact lower E2, or SHBG, or both ideally.

You can't compare Vinces blood test. He can run >1500 TT and not donate blood or take an AI. No one on this forum can do that but him.

 

[lowe2sucks]

^i can do same

 

[Vince]

You can't compare Vinces blood test. He can run

>1500 TT ​

and not donate blood or take an AI. No one on this forum can do that but him.

Yes in some ways I'm a unicorn, even though I did have high HCT for 2 years. But my HCT has stabilized even at >1500 TT. I don't understand why I never had high E2 levels, unless it's because I'm primary?

 

[CoastWatcher]

Yes in some ways I'm a unicorn, even though I did have high HCT for 2 years. But my HCT has stabilized even at >1500 TT. I don't understand why I never had high E2 levels, unless it's because I'm primary?

And lucky...or the TRT gods like you. Why do any of the surprising things that happen do, indeed, happen...