Jed Dorsey
Active Member
Ok den...I figured since you bashed the doctors idea of SP you at least had an option for the man...
Dht labs....should i worry?
- Thread starter Maximus220rr
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Ok den...I figured since you bashed the doctors idea of SP you at least had an option for the man...
Vince Carter
Banned
We don't demonize DHT on this forum, so no "option" is needed because there is no problem.
Deleted member 12831
Member
How did they measure that. lc-ms/ms is a better measurement. IS shbg high or elevated too?
Its crazy the crap that doctors recommend, my take would be "you lucky dog" Low DHT is the bane of sexual function and there are no persuasive studies linking high DHT to any bad side affects other than a very old and now discredited study linking it to prostate cancer.
The only negetive is for men with male pattern baldness but if you dont have that the opposite is true in that you will start growing hair in places it never was before.
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
DHT and E2 are proportional to T levels. ALL LAB TEST RANGE MAX VALUES FOR DHT AND E2 ON LABCORP AND QUEST FORMS DO NOT APPLY TO MEN ON HIGHER DOSE TRT.
Dihydrotestosterone (DHT)- Friend or Enemy?
Effect of DHT on Prostate and Sexual Function: Review of Studies
The Hidden Benefits of DHT and How to Increase & Reduce It
madman
Super Moderator
Dihydrotestosterone: Biochemistry, Physiology, and Clinical Implications of Elevated Blood Levels
Key Conclusions and Recommendations for Future Clinical Research
Circulating levels of DHT in response to TRT do not correlate with those found in androgen-sensitive tissue (e.g., prostate, adipose, muscle) due to local regulatory mechanisms that tightly control intracellular androgen homeostasis. Observations from numerous clinical studies are consistent with current knowledge that androgen-sensitive tissues can self-regulate tissue DHT levels by downregulating its synthesis and upregulating metabolism during DHT excess or, conversely, upregulating synthesis and downregulating metabolism under conditions of T or DHT deprivation. We are reminded of Horton’s admonition some 25 years ago when he concluded that blood levels of DHT provide only a hint of tissue levels and that DHT should be regarded as a paracrine hormone formed and acting primarily within target tissues (39).
The modest increases observed in serum DHT and in the DHT/T ratio observed after TRT are unlikely to be a cause of clinical concern, particularly when viewed in the context of changes observed in these parameters for currently marketed T replacement products and those under development for which DHT data are available. There is no sound current clinical evidence to indicate that elevated DHT concentrations (either short-lived peaks or sustained supraphysiological levels) are associated with risk beyond that known for androgens (most notably, T), including adverse effects on prostate.
Maximus220rr
Member
My shbg is 31 and am on an eod protocol
SilverSurfer
Active Member
My DHT is at 75 with the same range test. This is at peak levels. My TT at the peak is 1450. I haven’t noticed any problems relating to DHT with this level. At 82, I wouldn’t worry about it unless you start having issues.
I wouldn't try to lower DHT by taking saw palmetto, Finasteride or anything similar, because you may end up just wrecking your libido and causing gynecomastia and more heart and health problems for yourself. DHT is nothing to play around with lightly.
I messed up my natural DHT by taking Proviron for too long, starting in November of 2017, trying to raise my sperm count to get my wife pregnant (along with HCG and HMG and later FSH.) Everything went well with that, initially I had good libido, and my wife is now 15 weeks pregnant after our successful IVF implant in March.
The problem for me started in February and March of 2019 when I started having brain fog and poor libido, despite still taking the Proviron. DHT has higher affinity at the androgen receptor than testosterone, and it also has higher affinity at the estrogen receptor than estrogen. Thus if levels are too high it blocks both the positive benefits and negative effects of estrogen. Estrogen has beneficial cognitive effects in the brain and with libido, as well as important beneficial effects on lipids, heart health, tendons, etc as Nelson as been telling us for years. I realized that somehow things had changed and DHT was now blocking the positive effects as well as the negative effects of estrogen.
This apparently does happen in the bodybuilding community, and a former pro-bodybuilder described his take on my problem this way:
"DHT is a VERY active test analogue, it will occupy E receptors competitively and trigger T receptors as well as activate its own.
That being said, DHT will UP-REGULATE (Yes increase) the count AND the affinity of the DHT receptors when used in a high dosage and/or over prolonged periods of time where it will not be able to satisfy the "POSITIVE" DHT effects by regular Testosterone conversion, even at higher doses, this will let the aromatization into E show its NASTY side effects since even if controlled... has no DHT competing to keep it in check.
The bad news is that by exogenously supplying a constant value DHT signal you have unregulated your DHT receptors. and those are ones that up regulate quickly. Therefore the conversion from T is barely recognized. The 5 Alpha Reductase does not receive a feedback response."
I tried to stop taking the Proviron, and immediately had withdrawal symptoms and quickly developed gynecomastia, despite taking high doses (20-60mg per day) of Nolvadex. Now I have significant libido problems and gynecomastia because my body doesn't seem to recognize it's own endogenous DHT anymore. My DHT LC/MS/MS is 76 (normal on a range from 16-79ng/Dl, SHBG 26, free test and sensitive E2 both very high), but my gyno continues to grow, I have little libido, and my LDL cholesterol is very high, whether because of the imbalance of DHT/E2 or because of the Nolvadex, despite the fact that I am on a TRT dose of test (100mg twice per week) that never gave me problems before.
At this point I don't know what to do other than drop the TRT dose, but of course that gives me less androgens (T and DHT) as well as less estrogen, or go back on the Proviron, and I don't know whether that will make the gyno and lipids better or worse. And trying to explain this to any endocrinologist or doctor has been fruitless. I am desperately looking for help in the Boston area if anyone knows someone good.
Don't go messing with your DHT without consulting a good endocrinologist or other specialist. I wish that I never started taking Proviron myself; it helped me in the short run but in the long run it only caused me problems.
I messed up my natural DHT by taking Proviron for too long, starting in November of 2017, trying to raise my sperm count to get my wife pregnant (along with HCG and HMG and later FSH.) Everything went well with that, initially I had good libido, and my wife is now 15 weeks pregnant after our successful IVF implant in March.
The problem for me started in February and March of 2019 when I started having brain fog and poor libido, despite still taking the Proviron. DHT has higher affinity at the androgen receptor than testosterone, and it also has higher affinity at the estrogen receptor than estrogen. Thus if levels are too high it blocks both the positive benefits and negative effects of estrogen. Estrogen has beneficial cognitive effects in the brain and with libido, as well as important beneficial effects on lipids, heart health, tendons, etc as Nelson as been telling us for years. I realized that somehow things had changed and DHT was now blocking the positive effects as well as the negative effects of estrogen.
This apparently does happen in the bodybuilding community, and a former pro-bodybuilder described his take on my problem this way:
"DHT is a VERY active test analogue, it will occupy E receptors competitively and trigger T receptors as well as activate its own.
That being said, DHT will UP-REGULATE (Yes increase) the count AND the affinity of the DHT receptors when used in a high dosage and/or over prolonged periods of time where it will not be able to satisfy the "POSITIVE" DHT effects by regular Testosterone conversion, even at higher doses, this will let the aromatization into E show its NASTY side effects since even if controlled... has no DHT competing to keep it in check.
The bad news is that by exogenously supplying a constant value DHT signal you have unregulated your DHT receptors. and those are ones that up regulate quickly. Therefore the conversion from T is barely recognized. The 5 Alpha Reductase does not receive a feedback response."
I tried to stop taking the Proviron, and immediately had withdrawal symptoms and quickly developed gynecomastia, despite taking high doses (20-60mg per day) of Nolvadex. Now I have significant libido problems and gynecomastia because my body doesn't seem to recognize it's own endogenous DHT anymore. My DHT LC/MS/MS is 76 (normal on a range from 16-79ng/Dl, SHBG 26, free test and sensitive E2 both very high), but my gyno continues to grow, I have little libido, and my LDL cholesterol is very high, whether because of the imbalance of DHT/E2 or because of the Nolvadex, despite the fact that I am on a TRT dose of test (100mg twice per week) that never gave me problems before.
At this point I don't know what to do other than drop the TRT dose, but of course that gives me less androgens (T and DHT) as well as less estrogen, or go back on the Proviron, and I don't know whether that will make the gyno and lipids better or worse. And trying to explain this to any endocrinologist or doctor has been fruitless. I am desperately looking for help in the Boston area if anyone knows someone good.
Don't go messing with your DHT without consulting a good endocrinologist or other specialist. I wish that I never started taking Proviron myself; it helped me in the short run but in the long run it only caused me problems.
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