Daily Injections - Sinking Total T?

[riverside]

I am a lower SHBG guy and have resorted to daily injections. My last lab showed a major dip in Total T and I am now at 510 ng/dl. My weekly dose has not changed but is broken out into daily injections. My protocol is:

23mg Test-c ED
1 click of 20mg/ml Test Cream on scrotum for DHT
.5mg AI ED (long story in another post of mine)
25mg DHEA ED
6000 IU Vitamin D ED
220 IU HCG EOD

My recent confusing labs after 4 weeks on this protocol (difference was bumping AI to .5mg ED and ED injections is:

Total T = 510 (240 - 950)
Free T = 20.4 (4.65 - 18.1)
E2 Sensitive LCMS = 10 (10-40)
SHBG = 13 (10-57)
DHT = 450 (112-965)

My labs from 1/25 on an EOD protocol were:

45mg Test Cyp EOD
220 IU EOD
.5mg AI EOD
1 click of 50 mg/ml Test Cream on scrotum
25mg DHEA


Total T = 928 (240-950)
Free T = 372 (46 - 224)
Bio T = 631 (72-235)
E2 = 32 (10-40)
SHBG = 14 (10-57)
DHT 1370 (112-955) applied my cream that morning before injection, maybe the cause?

Labs on 2/28 after dropping the one click of Test Cream on scrotum because of DHT level. Same protocol as above for this one other than that:

Total T = 663 (240-950)
Free T = 213 (46-224)
E2 = 20 (8 - 35)
SHBG = 15 (10 - 57)
DHT = 590 (112 - 955)


Since my most recent labs at the top, I stopped my .5mg ED AI as my E2 is at 10. Interesting that is didn't totally crash in 4 weeks though at that dose. I have waves of libido at times but I think my body churns hormones so fast that a sweet spot is hard to find. Please let me know what you think about my fluctuating Total T or anything else.

One other note was I started Metformin 7 weeks before my last lab and my fasting Glucose did not drop (112 most recently) but I had an A1C drawn before starting Metformin and it was only 4.9. My SHBG definitely did not raise from the Metformin use, I have now discontinued taking it.

I have been on TRT for 8 months. 36 years old 6'2" 210lbs and roughly 17% bf. Primary issue for me is libido and has been for most of my adult life.

All labs were taken at roughly the same time in the morning and always on injection day and before injecting.

 

[Vince Carter]

with dailies your T is falling like a rock, IMHO and have to be very careful of when you have blood drawn that morning. It has to be right on the 24hr mark, if you have happen to go over 24hrs and say can't get bloods til 1000 or something your trough is going to look pretty weak. But then dailies is something different and if you're already hitting your injection and bloods timing, its not unknown to have to make a dose adjustment. For instance I have to shoot 28mg/D.

 

[riverside]

with dailies your T is falling like a rock, IMHO and have to be very careful of when you have blood drawn that morning. It has to be right on the 24hr mark, if you have happen to go over 24hrs and say can't get bloods til 1000 or something your trough is going to look pretty weak. But then dailies is something different and if you're already hitting your injection and bloods timing, its not unknown to have to make a dose adjustment. For instance I have to shoot 28mg/D.

Thanks. Yes, I always draw at the same time 7ish and that is also when I normally inject. The drop is crazy to me.

 

[riverside]

Thanks. Yes, I always draw at the same time 7ish and that is also when I normally inject. The drop is crazy to me.

Also, my EOD draw was always at trough on second day after injection at the same time. I seemed to always have a higher Total T with that protocol for some reason.

 

[Vince Carter]

operative question...which did you feel better on, daily or EOD?

 

[Vince]

I can't understand why your T levels are so low, injecting 23mg daily. Look at my labs at 22mg daily, I had labs 27.5 Hrs after injecting.

 

[riverside]

operative question...which did you feel better on, daily or EOD?

I've ebbed and flowed so much on this journey that it is almost hard to day. I was on EOD for much longer and had libido and energy come and go sometimes. Under this recent protocol I felt great for about 2 days early on. My guess is that was my sweet spot with E2 as I started my .5mg ED AI. Now I am too low I think.

Long way of saying I would give a slight nod to EOD but I have an AI variable as well. I think I need to get my Total T up.

 

[Vince Carter]

I would say that you would consider backing off the AI a bit with the switch to dailies, .5mg Ed is a whopper dose. I know you say you've had E problems, been there myself, but a little back off on the dose seems necessary, too.

 

[mopes]

I've ebbed and flowed so much on this journey that it is almost hard to day. I was on EOD for much longer and had libido and energy come and go sometimes. Under this recent protocol I felt great for about 2 days early on. My guess is that was my sweet spot with E2 as I started my .5mg ED AI. Now I am too low I think.

Long way of saying I would give a slight nod to EOD but I have an AI variable as well. I think I need to get my Total T up.

I had a similar experience lately where an increase in AI pushed my Total T much lower than I would have guessed. If you look around online you'll find a few similar experiences. Obviously we know AI's can push free T low but the notion that they can also push total T down is much less common. Thought it worth sharing as we're the same age and similar size.

 

[riverside]

I had a similar experience lately where an increase in AI pushed my Total T much lower than I would have guessed. If you look around online you'll find a few similar experiences. Obviously we know AI's can push free T low but the notion that they can also push total T down is much less common. Thought it worth sharing as we're the same age and similar size.

Interesting, I didn't know that AI lowers Free T. With my low SHBG, I guess that hasn't been an issue for me.

Is your current protocol working for you?

 

[Vince Carter]

You would think that inhibiting aromatase would free up TT/FT so something sounds suspect that TT/FT would go down.

 

[mopes]

Yes, I dropped the AI and lowered my dose.

Didn't make sense to me either but the only two times Total T levels have come back lower (significantly) than I expected I've been on an AI. Never been surprised by blood work when not taking an AI. Strange but I've found a few instances of other guys who seem to believe the same thing has happened to them.