Cypionate: Half-Life and Steady-State

[Will Brink]

We see eye to eye on that.

Known him since we was just beginning his focus on HRT and TBI, but that just make no sense and not supported by the science.

 

[Gman86]

I was just researching DIM for a few hours. I'm trying to avoid using an AI if possible. What brand of DIM are you using? Also, I too have high SHBG and was also wondering if guy's with high SHBG can benefit from ED or EOD dosing. I'm on E3D currently, but am thinking about switching to EOD to try and minimize E2 spikes.

 

[themud]

I take Vitamin Shoppe brand DIM, and Natural Source CDG. 2 each in a.m., 2 at lunch, 2 p.m.

Some might say that is a lot, but again my research says they are excreted in 4-6 hours. So if knocking down E2 is going to happen it will have to happen in those windows. Prescribed dose for those is 1 DIM 2X/day and 2 CDG 2X/day.

IMO Will and CW are correct. I am going to do my own labs this week. I want the sensitive E test and SHBG, and DHT done.

I want steady state.

 

[Helboi]

I was just researching DIM for a few hours. I'm trying to avoid using an AI if possible. What brand of DIM are you using?

Not that you asked me, but I thought I'd put in a word for a brand I've been using and am very happy with. They just came out with a stronger formulation too (250mg vs. 200mg per pill). It's from Smoky Mountain Naturals: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00XGQJVYQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=

 

[Gman86]

Thanks Helboi and themud for the replies. The Smoky Mountain Naturals brand was the exact brand I was thinking about getting actually. The only thing that concerns me about DIM is all the stuff I read about it being an androgen and mTOR antagonist. If it wasn't for those two things continually popping up while researching, I would of already ordered it.

http://atpscience.com/dim-diindolylmethane-the-most-potent-plant-anti-androgen/

 

[themud]

I do not buy that it is an antagonist. It also has a very short half life, especially if you are hydrating a lot. You can smell it in your urine.

The problem I have is the cost and efficacy. The cost and knowing it is working, and the only way to tell is to take it and get BW. Looking at the research it states up to 3500 mg. $$$$!!!! Same with CDG and IOC3. Some guys like PMgamer swear (even in with small dose) by it and some have had blood work and anectodally say it doesn't work.

I dropped it and I have ordered labs with Discountlabs. As soon as I get confirmatin I am going in.

 

[Vince]

I was always told that DIM does not work, if you can post your before and after Labs using DIM. It would be interesting to see. I've never use an AI or a DIM, so I have no experience using them.

 

[Tom Larabee]

DIM works, I went from 127 sensitive to 92 sensitive on 400 Smoky Mountain DIM with no other changes other than addition of DCG, from Dec 27, 16 to March 13, 17. In order to get it lower still we have increased it to 600 daily and gone with daily injections. I am a high converter and also very sensitive to AI, so we continue to try ways to control it without AI.

 

[CoastWatcher]

DIM works, I went from 127 sensitive to 92 sensitive on 400 Smoky Mountain DIM with no other changes other than addition of DCG, from Dec 27, 16 to March 13, 17. In order to get it lower still we have increased it to 600 daily and gone with daily injections. I am a high converter and also very sensitive to AI, so we continue to try ways to control it without AI.

Your success is impressive. That's the most significant reduction of e2 due to DIM that I've read of. Congratulations.

 

[Tom Larabee]

Yes it is pretty significant but not enough yet. I'm hoping it will continue to go down and I am able to also reduce the amount of DIM, but that is all part of the ongoing dial in process.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Yes it is pretty significant but not enough yet. I'm hoping it will continue to go down and I am able to also reduce the amount of DIM, but that is all part of the ongoing dial in process.

Have AIs crashed your e2?

 

[Tom Larabee]

Have AIs crashed your e2?

Yes twice. I won't go there again. Very sensitive to it and even more so to the penile desensitization that occurs.

 

[Jackie Treehorn]

Yes twice. I won't go there again. Very sensitive to it and even more so to the penile desensitization that occurs.

Tom,

What kind of dose were you on (AI) to crash your E2 twice? Have you considered micro-dosing of Anastrozole from a compounding pharmacy (as low as .1mg/BIW)?

I tried the DIM and CDG dance for a few months, but it didn't do anything to lower my E2. I'm currently taking .1mg Anastrozole/EOD to lower my E2. I've got blood work coming up in another week, so we'll see how that worked. I definitely feel better. I'm real close to being dialed in here.

 

[Vince]

DIM works, I went from 127 sensitive to 92 sensitive on 400 Smoky Mountain DIM with no other changes other than addition of DCG, from Dec 27, 16 to March 13, 17. In order to get it lower still we have increased it to 600 daily and gone with daily injections. I am a high converter and also very sensitive to AI, so we continue to try ways to control it without AI.

It will be interesting to see what daily injections, will do to your estradiol levels.

 

[BigFilly]

I can't recall the thread I saw a certain Excel chart in....but it showed an example dosage (100mg I think) of cypionate and the half life every 8 days or so until that reached zero. This chart showed each subsequent injection and it's respective half life. This was repeated until a "steady state" was achieved. The chart I'm referencing was created by a board member on an Excel spreadsheet if I'm not mistaken. It's also none of the charts/graphs in this particular thread. I know this is a shot in the dark....just trying to get my hands on that graphic for my buddy. It was a great visual of how the half life of cypionate works. Many thanks!

 

[Rjsnuruf]

themud, you actually seem to understand half-lives really really well. Test cyp's half life is 7-8 days. To reach a steady state of any medication, it takes 5 half lives. Which would be 35-40 days for test cyp. And when you reach a steady state of a medication, you are absolutely correct in regards to the initial dosing being double the amount in your system when a steady state is achieved. So for example, if you were taking 100mg/ week, when a steady state is achieved you would now continually have 200mg in your system even while still only taking 100mg injections per week. 5mg per day is just not going to be enough BTW, even taking into consideration it doubling in your system in 35-40 days. Definitely at minimum stay on 10mg per day. Keep us posted on how things go on that dosage.

Hi, can you explain to me if I'm wrong?
According to you, if you inject for 5 consecutive weeks you will double the amount you are using of testosterone.


But the other day I saw a video about a doctor explaining the half-lives of testosterone enanthate and according to what the doctor said, you could never double the amount you are using of testosterone.


For example:
If you are using 200mg testosterone enanthate a week and suppose it has a half-life of 7 days, half of 200mg is 100mg that will be metabolized during the FIRST WEEK then half of that half will be metabolized the next week a so on.


Having said that:


You inject 200mg at the start of the week 1
Week 1: 100mg are metabolized during the course of that week and not 200mg
Week 2: 50 mg
Week 3: 25mg
Week 4: 12.5mg
Week 5: 6.25mg
week 6: 3.125mg


If you do the math at week 6 you will have almost 200mg not 400mg, maybe there is a misconception because you only metabolize 100mg during the course of the first week and not 200mg.