Crashed Estradiol on TRT - Please Read!!!

[Gman86]

Gman, as a follow up to your reply, do you have any idea what Endos typically give to increase DHEA amd Free T3? Also, with regard to future Blood Tests I will be taking - in addition to SHGB, what are the other “key” things I should continue to get tested? Thank you!!

Honestly, my experience with endos are not good. I tried seeing 2 before I went on TRT, and neither knew anything about sex hormones. Most endos only treat thyroid issues and diabetes, in my experience. So for increasing your free T3, I would imagine they would put you on a synthetic T3 medication. I personally wouldn’t take a synthetic though. I would only take a desiccated thyroid supplement if I were to need it. Putting anything synthetic in your body when it comes to hormones is almost never optimal.

As far as DHEA goes, it’s very easy to raise that. You can purchase a DHEA supplement over the counter in the U.S. Another way to raise it could be pregnenolone. But that’s hit or miss when it comes to raising DHEA. Might just be better to take a DHEA supplement and increase it directly.

 

[impact55]

Honestly, my experience with endos are not good. I tried seeing 2 before I went on TRT, and neither knew anything about sex hormones. Most endos only treat thyroid issues and diabetes, in my experience. So for increasing your free T3, I would imagine they would put you on a synthetic T3 medication. I personally wouldn’t take a synthetic though. I would only take a desiccated thyroid supplement if I were to need it. Putting anything synthetic in your body when it comes to hormones is almost never optimal.

As far as DHEA goes, it’s very easy to raise that. You can purchase a DHEA supplement over the counter in the U.S. Another way to raise it could be pregnenolone. But that’s hit or miss when it comes to raising DHEA. Might just be better to take a DHEA supplement and increase it directly.

Understood, thank you!

 

[impact55]

Good Afternoon!

I wanted to update everyone with regard to my "NEW" lab results that were taken last Friday, December 7th. I met with my Endo this morning and reviewed the new results with him. The Endo said he is "NOT" ready to put me back on TRT yet since my numbers have improved since first coming off TRT 13 weeks ago (during that time I was NOT under his supervision). I was hoping to get your thoughts on my new lab results and provide and feedback or input you may have?

As for how I am feeling, the anxiety and hopelessness I was having are completely gone, but I am definitely still not 100%. My vision is still jacked up and my energy & strength levels are just o.k. - I am hitting the gym (weight training) 3-4 times per week and doing cardio 2 times per week. Overall, I am mentally in "MUCH BETTER" place than I was when I first stopped TRT, but physically I am still feeling weak and I tend to run our of energy in the afternoon. I am not having any issues sleeping (getting any where from 6-8 hours night).

The only thing the Endo prescribed me right now was a Vitamin D supplement b/c mine came back at 24.80 L. The good news is my Prolactin came back at 3.80 (it was 16.5 in my previous labs), and my Estradiol came back at 31 (it was 5 in my previous labs).

Thank you for taking time to read this and again ANY and ALL input is greatly appreciated.

Thank You!!!

 

[impact55]

Lab Results: December 7th

GRAN #: 2.3 (1.8-8.4 xl
GRAN 0/0: 52.1 (36.0-72.0)
HCT: 47.5 (36.0-50.0 0/0)
HGB: 16.2 (12.5-17.09/dL)
LYMPH#: 1.7 (0.7-4.5 xl
LYMPH %: (38.4) (23.0-43.0 0/0)
MCH: 31.1 (27.0-34.0 PG)
MCHC: 34.1 (32.0-36.0 gidL)
MCV: 91.1 (80.0-98.0 fL)
MID#: 0.4 0.0-1.1 xlOA 3/UL)
MIDO/0: 9.5 (0.0-10.0 Oh)
MPV: 8.8 (7.4-10.4 FL)
pLT: 163 (140415 x10h 3/UL)
RBC: 5.21 (4.10-5.60 xl)
RDW: 11.7 (1 1 .0-16.0 Oh)
WBC: 4.5 (3 8-10.8 x10h 3/UL)

SODIUM: 139 (136-145 mEq/L)
AIG RATIO: 1 9 (1.0-2.5 CALC)
ALBUMIN: 4.4 (3.4-5 0 gidL)
ALK. PHOSPHATASE: 47 (25-136 mq/dL)
ALT (SGPT): 15 (10-65 U/l)

AST (SGOT): 20 (5-37 U/l)
BUN/CREAT RATIO: 20 0 (8.0-36.0 CALC}
BUN: 24 HIGH (7-22 mg1dL)
CALCIUM: 9.4 (8.5-10.3 mg/dL)
CHLORIDE: 103 (98-107 mEq/9
CARBON DIOXIDE: 34 (21-34 TIE IL)
CREATININE: 1.2 (0.6-1 4 mg/dL)
DIRECT BILIRUBN: 0.20 (0.00-0.30 mg/dL)
GLOBULIN: 2.3 (g/dL)
GLUCOSE 88: (70-99 mg/dL)
POTASSIUM: 4.3 (3 .5-5 . 1 mEqL)
I-DH: 130 (81-234 U/L)
PHOSPHORUS: 3.1 (2.5-4.9 mg/dL)
TOTAL BILIRUBIN: 1.0 (0.0-1.3 mg/dL)
TOTAL PROTEIN: 6.7
URIC ACID: 6.2 (2.5-7.2 mg/dL)
GFRA 79: (>=60 ML/MIN)
GFRN 65: (>=60 ML/MIN)

ESTRADIOL: 31 (0-70 pg/mL)
FSH: 1.3 (0.7-11 1 mlWmL)
FREE T3: 2.35 (1.80-4.90 PG/ML)
FREE T4: 1.26 (0.65-1.74 1 26 ng/dL)
LH 3.0: (0 8-7.6 mlWmL)
PROLACTIN: 3.80 (2.50-17.00 n Iml)
TSH: 1.147 (0.400-4.000 mlU/mL)
SHBG: 41 NMOUL
TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL, LC/MS/MS: 416 (250-1100 ng/dL)
FREE TESTOSTERONE: 56.6 (35.0-155.0 1mL)

 

[Systemlord]

It's no surprise to see men coming in here with symptoms at these numbers, according to the studies levels below 440 ng/dL seem to experience poor sexual performance, decreased morning erection, and loss of libido.

It's quite obvious doctors need to reevaluate what constitutes normal levels because as it stand now according to these studies, the ranges go far too low.

Testosterone Threshold for Increased Cardiovascular Risk in Middle-Aged and Elderly Men:

These data showed that a testosterone threshold of 440 ng/dL was associated with increased Framingham 10-year CVD risk in middle-aged and elderly men. Poor sexual performance, decreased morning erection, and loss of libido had an impact on the testosterone threshold for CVD risk. The threshold level was higher in men with sexual dysfunction. Further study is required to evaluate the validity of these testosterone thresholds for CVD risk.

 

[impact55]

It's no surprise to see men coming in here with symptoms at these numbers, according to the studies levels below 440 ng/dL seem to experience poor sexual performance, decreased morning erection, and loss of libido.

It's quite obvious doctors need to reevaluate what constitutes normal levels because as it stand now according to these studies, the ranges go far too low.

Testosterone Threshold for Increased Cardiovascular Risk in Middle-Aged and Elderly Men:

Thank you for the reply Systemlord!

 

[Gman86]

Holy cow, if you’re feeling as decent as u are with these numbers, you’re going to feel on top of the world with optimal levels! I felt like complete garbage when my free testosterone was that low

 

[impact55]

GMAN, thank you for the reply once again! Just to be clear, I don’t feel great, but I guess I was feeling like shit for so long that perhaps I forgot what it is to feel like at optimal levels. I am nowhere near Feeling as good as I’d like to be, but much better than when my testosterone was 91 and estradiol was at 5 thirteen weeks ago. Also, I forgot to mention that l am starting a DHEA supplement next week as well.

 

[Gman86]

GMAN, thank you for the reply once again! Just to be clear, I don’t feel great, but I guess I was feeling like shit for so long that perhaps I forgot what it is to feel like at optimal levels. I am nowhere near Feeling as good as I’d like to be, but much better than when my testosterone was 91 and estradiol was at 5 thirteen weeks ago. Also, I forgot to mention that l am starting a DHEA supplement next week as well.

Anytime. And ya it only makes sense that you don’t feel good considering your numbers. If you were feeling great i would be very shocked! Lol. What dose of DHEA do they have you starting on?

 

[impact55]

1 Capaule per day which is 50/mg.

How does that sound?

 

[Tgrappler]

GMAN, thank you for the reply once again! Just to be clear, I don’t feel great, but I guess I was feeling like shit for so long that perhaps I forgot what it is to feel like at optimal levels. I am nowhere near Feeling as good as I’d like to be, but much better than when my testosterone was 91 and estradiol was at 5 thirteen weeks ago. Also, I forgot to mention that l am starting a DHEA supplement next week as well.

I know exactly what you mean. My protocol and estradiol crash were so messed up... For two months I was losing my mind, barely able to function. I literally forgot what it feels like to be "normal"...
I feel like this was one of the most mentally draining events in my life. I guess in a way it was a reset because from such rock bottom the only way is up.

I'm still struggling and almost feels like I'm having flashbacks once in a while. Definitely not 100% stable, but coming around. Able to get to the gym, and go to a grocery store without struggling with insane anxiety.

This hormonal adventure is no joke. Doctors need to be much more educated about properly managing estradiol and keeping the dosage of testosterone and other supplements on point.
I wish they would read these forums as thoroughly as many of us do. (Too much ego. My Endo keeps complaining that all of his other patients aren't as difficult. Well, get to work then).

 

[Gman86]

I know exactly what you mean. My protocol and estradiol crash were so messed up... For two months I was losing my mind, barely able to function. I literally forgot what it feels like to be "normal"...
I feel like this was one of the most mentally draining events in my life. I guess in a way it was a reset because from such rock bottom the only way is up.

I'm still struggling and almost feels like I'm having flashbacks once in a while. Definitely not 100% stable, but coming around. Able to get to the gym, and go to a grocery store without struggling with insane anxiety.

This hormonal adventure is no joke. Doctors need to be much more educated about properly managing estradiol and keeping the dosage of testosterone and other supplements on point.
I wish they would read these forums as thoroughly as many of us do. (Too much ego. My Endo keeps complaining that all of his other patients aren't as difficult. Well, get to work then).

I went through a dark time as well. It was when I was using clomid at 50mg/ day. Never thought a human could feel that bad. And taught me how much control hormones have. We all think our personality and how we think is our own, and we control it. Ummm nope. On clomid I thought about death and dark dark things, that I’ve never thought about before or after. It controlled how I viewed the world, and how I interacted with people. Hormones have way more control over us than we think. So even though it was an extremely dark time, it taught me so much. I’m actually glad I went through it.

But glad you’re feeling better, even if you’re not 100%. I’m in the same boat. I’m a lot better than I was before TRT, but still not where I know I will end up. Hope we both feel back to our old selves sooner than later. But patience is key. Unfortunately easier said than done lol.

 

[impact55]

Thank you very much for your input!!

 

[impact55]

1 Capaule per day which is 50/mg.

How does that sound?

GMAN, my previous reply to you was NOT accurate. The amount of DHEA I i will be taking is a small amount 2.5/mg per day. Sorry about that!

 

[impact55]

Happy New Year Everyone!!!

I hope everyone's new year is off to good start...I wanted to updated everyone as I just received my lab results from January 15th...as you may or may not recall, I cashed my E2 back in September 2018 and stopped TRT...since crashing my E2, I have had two additional labs taken, the most recent being earlier this month (15th)...I have been off Test since September...I also found a new Doctor that I will be working with going forward, I met with him last Friday (25th)...the Doctor prescribed me Test Cyp 100/mg per week divided into two does (3.5 days apart)...he also prescribed me DHEA....if needed, he also wrote me a script for Arimidex, but since crashing my E2 back in September I don't plan on using that stuff unless my E2 gets to high...that was a dark place and I NEVER want to go back there...I am scheduled for Lab Work in 30 days to see where my Test and E2 will be after being on the 100/mg per week...Also, the Doctor said my T3 lab result from December which was FREE T3: 2.35 (1.80-4.90 PG/ML), was a little low and we may add some T3 (12.5mg/25mg day) after the initial 30 days of being on Test Cyp....lastly, he also tested my IGF-1 (see elbow)...now sure if anyone has experience with HGH, but given my result of 148, I was curious if that was a decent number...thank you for your time once again and I will keep you posted throughout the next 30 days...any input or thoughts would be greatly appreciated...thank you!!!


ESTROGEN, TOTAL, SERUM
105.1 60-190 pg/mL (is this a good number???)

IGF 1, LC/MS
148 52-328 ng/mL

DHEA, UNCONJUGATED
294 147-1760 ng/dL

TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL, MS
516 250-1100 ng/dL

TESTOSTERONE, FREE
67.1 35.0-155.0 pg/mL

TSH
1.52 0.40-4.50 mIU/L

T4, FREE
1.5 0.8-1.8 ng/dL

PSA, TOTAL
0.4 < OR = 4.0 ng/mL

 

[CoastWatcher]

You have no reason to ever measure your "Estrogen, Total Serum." It's a test that gives not one bit of actionable information to you and your doctor. That it was ordered, particularly in light of your e2 challenges, is an indication that your new doctor, though better than your old, still doesn't know how to play this game. This is a basic rule-of-the road...and he didn't know it.

Men measure e2 with the so-called sensitive test: Estradiol, LC/MS,MS. You can obtain this test yourself via www.discountedlabs.com.

 

[impact55]

You have no reason to ever measure your "Estrogen, Total Serum." It's a test that gives not one bit of actionable information to you and your doctor. That it was ordered, particularly in light of your e2 challenges, is an indication that your new doctor, though better than your old, still doesn't know how to play this game. This is a basic rule-of-the road...and he didn't know it.

Men measure e2 with the so-called sensitive test: Estradiol, LC/MS,MS. You can obtain this test yourself via www.discountedlabs.com.

Thank you!