No, consecutively after stopping testosterone. I edited the post to clarify it.
Coming off TRT- Defy HPTA Reset Protocol
- Thread starter copacetic25
- Start date
So the change is that there is no waiting period after stopping testosterone and enclomiphene became 6 weeks rather than 4, correct?
Those are changes from the older protocol given by Jasen Bruce, but the protocol I listed is the same as the one given above by Dr. Saya on 9/18/2016—except that enclomiphene is used in place of clomiphene and an AI is included. The AI use possibly aids the restart even if it's not needed to control high estrogen.
New Defy Protocal:
- STOP T Cyp
- BEGIN HCG 500 iu TIW x 2 weeks then stop
- BEGIN Enclomiphene 25mg by mouth Daily M-F x 12 weeks then stop
- CONT Anastrozole 0.2 mg twice weekly, discontinue at end of Enclomiphine cycle
- Testosterone, Free, Direct with Total Testosterone LabCorp
- Estradiol, Sensitive (LC/MS) LabCorp
- Luteinizing Hormone (LH) LabCorp
Last edited:
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
I would do the tests 8 weeks after stopping. Not at week 12 from start.
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
I would also add 5 to 10 mg of Cialis daily if you can tolerate that drug.
madman
Super Moderator
Although TT is important to know FT is what truly matters as it is the active unbound fraction of testosterone responsible for the beneficial effects.
If you want to know where your FT level truly sits then you would need to have it tested using the most accurate assays such as the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration.
I would replace: Testosterone, Free, Direct with Total Testosterone LabCorp
with either one of these tests from Nelson's discountedlabs.
1 Testosterone, Total and Free (NO Upper Limit) plus Hematocrit
2 Testosterone, Total, LC/MS and Free (Equilibrium Ultrafiltration)
madman
Super Moderator
I would not rely on the direct immunoassay when it comes to testing FT.
www.labcorp.com
Methodology
Free: Direct analog enzyme immunoassay (EIA); Total: electrochemiluminescence immunoassay (ECLIA
140103: Testosterone, Free, Direct With Total Testosterone | Labcorp
Labcorp test details for Testosterone, Free, Direct With Total Testosterone
Methodology
Free: Direct analog enzyme immunoassay (EIA); Total: electrochemiluminescence immunoassay (ECLIA
A few thoughts/questions:
- If your TRT protocol included long term use of HCG, can one assume he has preserved testicular capacity to create endogenous testosterone? Would this make these protocols less necessary?
- Could one consider a transition from their protocol to Natesto? That way, you can still supplement for a period of time, while the pulsatile nature of Natesto minimizes HPTA suppression. I am not sure if this would happen in practice, but seems to make sense in theory. I have read that Natesto does not suppress normal endogenous function. But, I don’t know if starting Natesto after other forms of TRT would allow an already suppressed system to “restart” itself?
This would often be the case, but hCG doses with TRT are usually lower. I maintained decent testicular volume with hCG use but never had indications that endogenous testosterone production was significant.
Not really, if you're looking to speed things up. Typically a long ester such as cypionate is used for TRT. This takes time to clear after administration has ended. During this period you should maintain hCG use to avoid backsliding. There's no point in adding the SERM until exogenous testosterone is substantially reduced.
This is possibly workable. You could phase in the use of Natesto as the previous exogenous testosterone fades. A SERM might still be helpful to speed up the process. You could potentially have some problems if there's a period when you're relying on only Natesto for your testosterone. This could mean some fairly long periods each day with very low levels.
I've been thinking of posting a write-up of a restart plan that in theory works the fastest and reduces periods of low testosterone. The downside is its complexity: While still on TRT you start taking kisspeptin, GnRH and hCG. Each acts to stimulate one element of the HPTA, respectively the hypothalamus, the pituitary, and the testicles. This attacks the restart problem in parallel.
I have a writeup here:
Advanced TRT: A protocol for restoring suppressed hormones
Advanced TRT: A protocol for restoring suppressed hormones
www.peaktestosterone.com
Great information and thanks for the reply. I was primarily curious what you, yourself are doing with TRT? You have advanced knowledge on exit plans, so I am wondering if you have weaned yourself off? Or, are you still on TRT?
Can someone help me come off trt?
I got bloodwork a while back. (Natural / pre trt)
Total was 850
Free was 11.6
SHBg was 63.6
looking to come off trt
can someone shoot me an email [email protected]
Looking to come off trt
my natural levels were
850 total
11.6 free
63.6 shbg
I’m on 100mg and 500iu of hcg
tried to come off in January and retested 4 weeks later my levels were 560 total and 6.8 free. Came off cold turkey, wasn’t as bad as you guys made it out to be.
im wondering did I give myself enough time to recover with only 4 weeks on the retest? Can someone guide me?
Email [email protected]
my natural levels were
850 total
11.6 free
63.6 shbg
I’m on 100mg and 500iu of hcg
tried to come off in January and retested 4 weeks later my levels were 560 total and 6.8 free. Came off cold turkey, wasn’t as bad as you guys made it out to be.
im wondering did I give myself enough time to recover with only 4 weeks on the retest? Can someone guide me?
Email [email protected]
waterbottle1258@tutanota.
Member
Is this still a good regimen? I want to come off TRT and this one seems pretty straighforward
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