Clomid worked for test numbers but there is a twist to the story

[Cataceous]

I was just reading and reading and reading..... And there where a few posts that stated that E2 level test while on Clomid will give a false high reading????

Ideas on that?
...

It should be more like the opposite: a false low reading. And then only because you're not measuring the estrogenic action of Clomid itself.

 

[Justaguy]

It should be more like the opposite: a false low reading. And then only because you're not measuring the estrogenic action of Clomid itself.

I didn't see that it would be a false low.... As I understood it.... E2 would be higher because it is not binding to the estrogen receptors.... Kinda like free testosterone vs total testosterone.... The shbg don't allow some of the testosterone to be used.... ???

I don't know if what I wrote is correct or not.

 

[Cataceous]

I didn't see that it would be a false low.... As I understood it.... E2 would be higher because it is not binding to the estrogen receptors.... Kinda like free testosterone vs total testosterone.... The shbg don't allow some of the testosterone to be used.... ???

I don't know if what I wrote is correct or not.

Even if such binding has a measurable effect on serum estradiol it would be a real elevation, though apparently the argument is that because some of its activity is blocked it's behaving as if there were less estradiol. Nonetheless, it's probably still outweighed by the estrogenic activity of zuclomiphene.

... zuclomifene is antigonadotropic due to activation of the estrogen receptor and is able to reduce testosterone levels in men to near-castrate levels.

 

[Justaguy]

Even if such binding has a measurable effect on serum estradiol it would be a real elevation, though apparently the argument is that because some of its activity is blocked it's behaving as if there were less estradiol. Nonetheless, it's probably still outweighed by the estrogenic activity of zuclomiphene.

I am sorry, I do not understand where Zuclomiphene comes into this. Is that a trade name for Clomiphene?

And are you saying that the high test level of E2 is a problem either way, if it reacts with the cells or not?

 

[Cataceous]

I am sorry, I do not understand where Zuclomiphene comes into this. Is that a trade name for Clomiphene?

And are you saying that the high test level of E2 is a problem either way, if it reacts with the cells or not?

Clomid/clomiphene consists of two isomers, enclomiphene and zuclomiphene. Enclomiphene is anti-estrogenic, antagonizing estrogen receptors. This feature fools the body into thinking there's not enough estradiol, thereby leading to an increase in LH, testosterone and estradiol. Zuclomiphene is estrogenic, and by itself could cause substantial problems for a guy. But clearly enclomiphene overrides the anti-gonadotropic behavior of zuclomiphene. The estrogenic effect of zuclomiphene is still there, however, and is not measured via any of the usual tests. So in this respect a test measuring estradiol alone is underestimating total estrogenic activity in a guy taking Clomid.

The argument you seemed to be making is that when enclomiphene antagonizes estrogen receptors that displaces estradiol, which supposedly inflates the test results. It occurs to me that this doesn't really work for a measurement of total estradiol, but it could have some relevance for free estradiol.

 

[Systemlord]

There are a lot of misconceptions here, whether it's 1mg or 400 mg of testosterone injected, it will negatively affect fertility. HCG can keep the testicles producing small amounts of T and E2, FSH injection can greatly improve sperm production when wanting to have kids.

Total estrogens is completely useless, I don't know why your doctor is testing for it, you want the sensitive estrogen test or LC/MS/MS test. It doesn't sound at all like you're working with somebody competent enough to manage your TRT protocol and I think that's why you're running into problems.

 

[Justaguy]

There are a lot of misconceptions here, whether it's 1 mg 400 mg of testosterone injected, it will negatively effect fertility. HCG can keep the testicles producing small amount of T and E2, FSH injection can greatly improve sperm production when wanting to have.

Total estrogens is completely useless, I don't know why your doctor is testing for it, you want the sensitive estrogen test or LC/MS/MS test. It doesn't sound at all like you're working with somebody competent enough to manage your tear to protocol and I think that's why you're running into problems.

I understand, thank you for the knowledge shared.