Changed my mind!

[Vince Carter]

14mg is a good place to start, dose based off of your Free T not being over the lab range in your trough is the best advice I could give you when working on the aromatization aspect. Never worked for me, I couldn't control how I aromatase going so far as Cyp only.

I think Aromasin/Exemestance works a little bit better for me than Anastrozole though I still need a lot of it, 12.5mg EOD. Though I'm an oddball, my SHBG is ~12, I over-aromatase, but can tolerate very little Estrogen...has been a hard thing for me though I'm on to what is working, for me.

 

[Indy57]

14mg is a good place to start, dose based off of your Free T not being over the lab range in your trough is the best advice I could give you when working on the aromatization aspect. Never worked for me, I couldn't control how I aromatase going so far as Cyp only.

I think Aromasin/Exemestance works a little bit better for me than Anastrozole though I still need a lot of it, 12.5mg EOD. Though I'm an oddball, my SHBG is ~12, I over-aromatase, but can tolerate very little Estrogen...has been a hard thing for me though I'm on to what is working, for me.

Funny you mention that as I was starting to look into examestane as a possible replacement for arimidex as well! I decided to do this first for 6 weeks as I think it’s what my symptoms and bloodwork are telling me to do!

I figure start on the low side (14mg ) and get bloodwork - I can always slowly increase it up if need be. But I think I need to find the point where I start to over aromatise first and then stay just under it - if my E2 ends up at 30-40 and I feel great with no arimidex ( and no arimidex sides ) then so be it!

 

[Gman86]

Funny you mention that as I was starting to look into examestane as a possible replacement for arimidex as well! I decided to do this first for 6 weeks as I think it’s what my symptoms and bloodwork are telling me to do!

I figure start on the low side (14mg ) and get bloodwork - I can always slowly increase it up if need be. But I think I need to find the point where I start to over aromatise first and then stay just under it - if my E2 ends up at 30-40 and I feel great with no arimidex ( and no arimidex sides ) then so be it!

Smart. I think you’re going to have great success doing it this way. It’s going to take patience, but I think it will be worth it for u. I’m using exemestane now btw. Would much rather be off an ai all together. So I encourage you to do the same, like you plan on doing.

 

[SilverSurfer]

Some people just get addicted to the needle rush.

 

[themud]

Daily here. Started at around 10mg/day and normal to be around 15mg/day. Doc couldn't figure out why my E2 was so low and didn't like it that low, but didn't know what to do about it. Free was any where from 600-1000. E2 was sometimes in teens.

I felt great. I have recently done 30mg/day and was great for about 10 weeks, then the I could tell E2 was too high as I was getting emotional at movies etc., something I never do. Dropped back down to 15mg/day 3 weeks ago and back to feeling awesome.

Tried Prop daily, but reacted bad. Got knots in the injections sights and I usually inject into glutes and calves, but the prop in my calf tightened my calf so bad I couldn't run. Tried like hell to make prop work, but the knots were bad even when massaged after injection.

I have absolutely no problem injecting daily. I hit the coffee maker at 5am and before it's half done I am done with my t cyp injection and ready for my day.

I have a friend who is a doctor and is Diabetic Type ll and he has never used a pump. He prefers going by his watch, sugar level and insulin with syringe. Has done a couple of punches per day. Is it harder than taking a dump?

 

[Gman86]

Daily here. Started at around 10mg/day and normal to be around 15mg/day. Doc couldn't figure out why my E2 was so low and didn't like it that low, but didn't know what to do about it. Free was any where from 600-1000. E2 was sometimes in teens.

I felt great. I have recently done 30mg/day and was great for about 10 weeks, then the I could tell E2 was too high as I was getting emotional at movies etc., something I never do. Dropped back down to 15mg/day 3 weeks ago and back to feeling awesome.

Tried Prop daily, but reacted bad. Got knots in the injections sights and I usually inject into glutes and calves, but the prop in my calf tightened my calf so bad I couldn't run. Tried like hell to make prop work, but the knots were bad even when massaged after injection.

I have absolutely no problem injecting daily. I hit the coffee maker at 5am and before it's half done I am done with my t cyp injection and ready for my day.

I have a friend who is a doctor and is Diabetic Type ll and he has never used a pump. He prefers going by his watch, sugar level and insulin with syringe. Has done a couple of punches per day. Is it harder than taking a dump?

So you’re on 15mg/ day of cypionate? What is your SHBG? And so it’s probably safe to assume your E2 is back in the teens, right? What was your total and free testosterone levels back when you had labs on 15mg/ day the first time around?

 

[themud]

TT upper 900s. E was in high teens and low 20s. Don't know shbg. Don't remember ft.

 

[Gman86]

TT upper 900s. E was in high teens and low 20s. Don't know shbg. Don't remember ft.

Do you know your free T? I would imagine your SHBG is on the low side if you’re feeling great with E in the high teens, low 20’s

 

[Indy57]

Week one update on 14mg daily- feeling good so far! Doing shots first thing in the morning after showering. No Ai this week.
Energy level is good, sleep is excellent, and morning wood every day ( I know TMI but someone will ask )

Plan to keep going for 5 more weeks and then get bloodwork

Indy

 

[seb288]

Indy what ester are you using and what's your SHBG? Any daily fluctuation in symptoms (energy, libido, mood)?

I've found it useful to get peak and trough levels measured because a trough of 750 could mean a peak of 950 for one person and a peak of 1600 for another. Equally a peak of 750 can mean a trough of 600 for one person and a trough of 280 for another. SHBG seems to ba an indicator of half life but even that's unreliable.

 

[Cataceous]

... SHBG seems to ba an indicator of half life but even that's unreliable.

SHBG does not affect the rate at which a testosterone ester is released from an injected depot, so by what mechanism would it affect the apparent half-life?

 

[Indy57]

Indy what ester are you using and what's your SHBG? Any daily fluctuation in symptoms (energy, libido, mood)?

I've found it useful to get peak and trough levels measured because a trough of 750 could mean a peak of 950 for one person and a peak of 1600 for another. Equally a peak of 750 can mean a trough of 600 for one person and a trough of 280 for another. SHBG seems to ba an indicator of half life but even that's unreliable.

I’m using test cyp- always have.My most recent SHBG was 29.2 and total T 909. I had bloodwork done before my next shot but since I’m doing daily injections I don’t think there really is a “peak” anymore - could be wrong but I don’t think so.
The only thing I noticed was I used to get really tired at the end of the day but that only lasted 10 days or so- I suppose it was my body getting used to the lower dose and daily injections. Everything is good now though. At has been 7 weeks and I am feeling really good! Energy mood and everything else is great!

Indy

 

[Will Brink]

You're overlooking the aspect of the conversion process of testosterone to estrogen, smaller the injection, the less you convert to estrogen.

Maybe, but there's a deminishing return at some point. If one is having difficulty managing E2 (and the OPs numbers don't indicate that per se), smaller more frequent injections are worth a try, otherwise 2X per week of common esters used in US (cyp/enanth) works fine for the vast majority of men. If one wants to be a human pin cushion, that's up to them I suppose but every time but that does increase potential for negatives like site infections and such, albeit rare. Propionate would make more sense daily, but many docs not willing to try it.

 

[seb288]

Cataceous It's a weak correlation I've noticed, but I've no idea as to the mechanism. It could be that my sample size is too small, or that high SHBG and slow clearance are caused by similar things (e.g. old age).

Indy57 Those are some fantastic numbers, it's a shame that you're not able to mimic natural diurnal variation like this guy with a cyp protocol but if you're feeling amazing that's what matters!

The oddity is that T Props super short half life of 0.8 days, it peaks at 48h whereas T E peaks at 24h according to graphs, which makes Prop a wildly unpredictable protocol.

I'm going to try 8mg T Prop daily (to mimic natural variation) and post how it works for someone like me with low SHBG - if I find it falls too low by trough time I'll switch to 9mg T Enan daily. Might start a new thread to log that to avoid hijacking this one.

 

[Cataceous]

Cataceous It's a weak correlation I've noticed, but I've no idea as to the mechanism. It could be that my sample size is too small, or that high SHBG and slow clearance are caused by similar things (e.g. old age).
...

If you accept two basic premises then the result is that SHBG affects the overall magnitude of serum testosterone, but not its rate of decline in response to an injection. The first premise is that in the absence of inputs, serum testosterone declines at a rate proportional to its magnitude, and SHBG factors into this proportionality (metabolic clearance rate, or MCR). The second premise is that the half-life of this clearance process is much less than the apparent half-life of testosterone release from injected depots. The latter condition is met because testosterone esters have apparent half-lives of days, while half-lives associated with MCR are on the order of minutes to hours.

 

[Cataceous]

...
The oddity is that T Props super short half life of 0.8 days, it peaks at 48h whereas T E peaks at 24h according to graphs, which makes Prop a wildly unpredictable protocol.
...

I don't think this conveys the right impression. A single injection of T propionate might peak serum T at 48 hours, but when you sum daily injection response curves you certainly end up with consistent daily peaks, very likely in the first 12 hours post-injection.

 

[wsj357]

I’m going to try daily injections! Going to be using 14mg every day ( have been on 40mg EOD and .25 mg arimidex for over a year - 5 years of TRT total )
Using 29gauge insulin needles .5” inch in shoulder.

I’ll update periodically how I feel and will get bloodwork done in 6 weeks. My current protocol has my Test at 848 and E2 at 38- will see how daily injections change those levels!

Indy

Pre fill those needles in one sitting for the week. Saves tons of time.