Can Testosterone Induce Blood Clots and Thrombosis? Interview with Dr Charles Glueck

[DeMegaMan619]

Please describe exactly which coagulation disorders you have been diagnosed with from your lab tests. How long have you been on TRT while you were also on Eliquis? What dose of Eliquis are you taking and what is your dose of TRT? Also, I'm curious, did you ask Dr. G about the latest studies which contradict all of his previous work that we posted here?

This is literally what Dr G emailed me after he went over the lab work he requested:

"You have an acquired thrombophilia called the Lupus anticoagulant. This almost never is associated with the disease Lupus, and unless you have arthritis, joint pain, sun sensitivity, and a facial rash, would not worry about that. It is now clear that the blood clot which you had was related to the interaction of the testosterone with the lupus anticoagulant. As long as the lupus anticoagulant is present, ANY EXOGENOUS TESTOSTERONE IS CONTRAINDCATED, due to a huge increase in the risk of blood clotting. CJ Glueck MD"

I took the same blood results to my prescribing doctor and he said, in his opinion, I am going to clot whether I am on TRT or not. This was in March of this year. He started me on Eliquis and rechecked my leg about 12 weeks later. The superficial blood clots were gone.

I take 5 mg of Eliquis twice a day.

I am prescribed 200 mg of TRT but usually take 120 to 160 mg a week.

I did not challenge Dr G regarding any of the new studies my prescribing doc mentioned. I figured he was aware of them or would come across them. Also, he does all this free of charge for us so I did not want to come across as disrespectful after asking for his help.

Just to add: I started completely over with another cardiologist today just for a second opinion.

 

[Marco N Cognito]

This is literally what Dr G emailed me after he went over the lab work he requested:

"You have an acquired thrombophilia called the Lupus anticoagulant. This almost never is associated with the disease Lupus, and unless you have arthritis, joint pain, sun sensitivity, and a facial rash, would not worry about that. It is now clear that the blood clot which you had was related to the interaction of the testosterone with the lupus anticoagulant. As long as the lupus anticoagulant is present, ANY EXOGENOUS TESTOSTERONE IS CONTRAINDCATED, due to a huge increase in the risk of blood clotting. CJ Glueck MD"

I took the same blood results to my prescribing doctor and he said, in his opinion, I am going to clot whether I am on TRT or not. This was in March of this year. He started me on Eliquis and rechecked my leg about 12 weeks later. The superficial blood clots were gone.

I take 5 mg of Eliquis twice a day.

I am prescribed 200 mg of TRT but usually take 120 to 160 mg a week.

I did not challenge Dr G regarding any of the new studies my prescribing doc mentioned. I figured he was aware of them or would come across them. Also, he does all this free of charge for us so I did not want to come across as disrespectful after asking for his help.

Just to add: I started completely over with another cardiologist today just for a second opinion.

Thanks for getting back. Good you're getting a 2nd opinion, but I would be surprised if a cardiologist will have the knowledge base you need when it comes to HRT in general, as most will just side with all the crap studies that say TRT causes strokes, heart attacks, and clots.

I agree with your prescribing doc. TRT is not necessarily the trigger and I find it nothing more than an assumption on Dr. G's part that your episode was related to an interaction between the TRT and LA. So, you're still on TRT and Eliquis? Did you ever stop the T? How long had you been on it when you had the clot and was that prior to being on Eliquis or any anticoagulant? Since that clot, have you experienced any new ones? What's your age? Had you experienced any clots prior to taking T? Any chance you knew what your RBCs. MCT, HGB and E2 were when the clot presented? Glueck says that E2 >42 is the major thrombogenic trigger. So, my question would be.....so long as you make sure and keep serum E2 levels <42 + anticoagulant prophylaxis, then would the so-called risk of clot induction from TRT be minimized? I don't think anyone can answer that with any certainty at this point.

 

[DeMegaMan619]

So, you're still on TRT and Eliquis? Did you ever stop the T? How long had you been on it when you had the clot and was that prior to being on Eliquis or any anticoagulant? Since that clot, have you experienced any new ones? What's your age? Had you experienced any clots prior to taking T?

I did stop the TRT when I first found out about the the clots in my leg. This was summer of last year. I had probably been on TRT around two years at that point.

Since starting Eliquis, my prescribing doc has not found any more clots in either leg. Though, that does not mean the rest of my body is clot free.

I am 40.

No clots prior to taking T (that I know of).

Here is the wrench! I was in the hospital for five days in late May. I got the clot signs and symptoms the day after I was released. Five days of sitting and laying on my ass may have played a large part.

 

[Marco N Cognito]

I did stop the TRT when I first found out about the the clots in my leg. This was summer of last year. I had probably been on TRT around two years at that point.

Since starting Eliquis, my prescribing doc has not found any more clots in either leg. Though, that does not mean the rest of my body is clot free.

I am 40.

No clots prior to taking T (that I know of).

Here is the wrench! I was in the hospital for five days in late May. I got the clot signs and symptoms the day after I was released. Five days of sitting and laying on my ass may have played a large part.

How long have you been on Eliquis? Did you also look into the other newer class anticoagulants, Xarelto and Pradaxa?

Unless you were dx'd with a DVT or PE, there's no reason for you to have been hospitalized, as a clot in a superficial vein is not life-threatening. Maybe I'm missing something more here? Were you in the ER at first?

 

[DeMegaMan619]

How long have you been on Eliquis? Did you also look into the other newer class anticoagulants, Xarelto and Pradaxa?

I can't remember exactly. I want to say around March of this year.

Unless you were dx'd with a DVT or PE, there's no reason for you to have been hospitalized, as a clot in a superficial vein is not life-threatening. Maybe I'm missing something more here? Were you in the ER at first?

Sorry, I was in the hospital in May of last year for diverticulitis. As of May 2014, I had no symptoms or any ideas of any blood clots. Off the top of my head, I want to say I started TRT in March of 2013 with a gel. I felt my first blood clot symptom the day I left the hospital. The clots weren't discovered officially until June 2014. I didn't take all of this info to my prescribing doctor until the beginning of this year. Not sure if that paints a better picture.

 

[Kquad]

Does anyone know if the E2 of 42.6 is with the regular estradiol,sensive or ed

 

[Kquad]

Does anyone know what test they used for the estradiol of 42.6. There are 3levels of sensitivity at labcorp. The test just prior to my dvt and PE was 40 on the extra-sensitive. On testosterone for 8 months.His lab sheet he sent to me was regular estradiol. I would have been way above 42 on that test. Only tested for 3clotting tests and they were negative except 1 parent on a MTHR GENE

 

[J2048b]

According to Glueck, E2 >42 is a far more thrombogenic risk than elevated HCT/polycythemia. Once must watch for both to prevent DVT/PEs.

well recently got bloods done and this caught my eye again due to my levels:

WENT OFF TEST FOR A LENGTH OF TIME SO I COULD GET A BASELINE, AND IT MIGHT HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN LOWER SCORE HAD I BEEN ABLE TO GET TO QUEST EARLIER THAN 9 AM...

total test 268
free test 40

ESTROGEN SENSITIVE....22!!!!!

HCT 55: SCALE 38.5-50
HEMOGLOBIN 17.6 SCALE 13.2-17.1
RBC 6.1 SCALE:4.20-5.80


I HATE HOW DIFFERENT GROUPS WHO TAKE YOUR BLOOD HAVE DIFFERENT SCALES, WHERE AS MY LAST CRIT SCALE WAS 44-52 AND THIS IS COMPLETELY LIKE 6-7 POINTS LOWER FROM QUEST ..... MAKES NO DAMN SENSE TO ME HOW THERE ISNT A SET PARAMETER FOR BW....

 

[J2048b]

does anyone know what test they used for the estradiol of 42.6. There are 3levels of sensitivity at labcorp. The test just prior to my dvt and pe was 40 on the extra-sensitive. On testosterone for 8 months.his lab sheet he sent to me was regular estradiol. I would have been way above 42 on that test. Only tested for 3clotting tests and they were negative except 1 parent on a mthr gene

my old doctor had me doing an estrodial testing of 0-160 and the new doc is estrogen sensitive lc/ms/ms

in actuality there a a ton more that can be done not just three...

 

[Kquad]

I am not getting the rest of his testing done at this time because of fear. In the ER they told me this is often a sign of a hidden cancer. So, if I get the testing done and I am negative on everything, I will concentrate on the cancer possibility. It look like between 6 months and a year that risk rapidly decreases. Then I will finish the genetic testing.it has only been 5 Weeks for me. The risk is somewhere between 3-10%, with newer studies skewing to the lower end.

My last test was all normal except my rbcs had increased to 5.6, not polycythremia but much higher. Maybe that with high E2 is what kicked this up. I had taken my first arimidex in months within a few days of the PE.

 

[J2048b]

I am not getting the rest of his testing done at this time because of fear. In the ER they told me this is often a sign of a hidden cancer. So, if I get the testing done and I am negative on everything, I will concentrate on the cancer possibility. It look like between 6 months and a year that risk rapidly decreases. Then I will finish the genetic testing.it has only been 5 Weeks for me. The risk is somewhere between 3-10%, with newer studies skewing to the lower end.

My last test was all normal except my rbcs had increased to 5.6, not polycythremia but much higher. Maybe that with high E2 is what kicked this up. I had taken my first arimidex in months within a few days of the PE.

ok please tell me what exactly is a hidden sign of cancer?? rbc's at 5.6??? man cmon mine are sitting at 6, WHICH IS HIGH, bro ur rbc's are still lower than the max... on my scale it was 4.20-5.80....5.6??? where are u getting these bw tests done and by what scale are they using? labcorp and quest values on said blood tests are both different... im very confused on why anyone is saying a hidden cancer towards anything ur going thru, i apologize if im out of line, but just very confused...

 

[Kquad]

I know my RBCs are below max, it was just a large increase for me. In cases where they can not find a cause for the dvt or PE, the cause can be an unknown cancer. Cancers are thrombogenic. It may even be undetectable at the time of the clot. The vast majority of cancers show up in a year.Testing for it such as a CT test and full assessment at the time of the clot will find 2 out of 3 cancers. Remember this is at most 1 in 10 cases. That has been going down, probably due to routine cancer screening telling more people they already have cancer. In the last 15 years the rate of hidden cancer is about 4%

I am only freaking because some studies say testosterone does not cause clots. I have one more CT on Monday, everything has been negative. After that I have to not think about it. My E2 was in the 40s at the time of my clot. That was the ultrasensitive test. On Dr Gleucks form he only asks for the regular E2 test.My experience shows I probably would have been much higher on the regular E 2 test

Did you have a clot?

 

[Kquad]

According to Glueck, E2 >42 is a far more thrombogenic risk than elevated HCT/polycythemia. Once must watch for both to prevent DVT/PEs.

Where did you get this info that E2 was more thrombogenic

 

[J2048b]

Where did you get this info that E2 was more thrombogenic

he said doc g stated it.... but as we know some of what doc g is now saying is contradicting to what he said here... so confusion sets in amongst us all...


i wish doc g would chime in here tbh...

 

[J2048b]

I know my RBCs are below max, it was just a large increase for me. In cases where they can not find a cause for the dvt or PE, the cause can be an unknown cancer. Cancers are thrombogenic. It may even be undetectable at the time of the clot. The vast majority of cancers show up in a year.Testing for it such as a CT test and full assessment at the time of the clot will find 2 out of 3 cancers. Remember this is at most 1 in 10 cases. That has been going down, probably due to routine cancer screening telling more people they already have cancer. In the last 15 years the rate of hidden cancer is about 4%

I am only freaking because some studies say testosterone does not cause clots. I have one more CT on Monday, everything has been negative. After that I have to not think about it. My E2 was in the 40s at the time of my clot. That was the ultrasensitive test. On Dr Gleucks form he only asks for the regular E2 test.My experience shows I probably would have been much higher on the regular E 2 test

Did you have a clot?

i thought i did 2 times, but they said nope, did a d-dimer test and ultrasounds of veins and artery down left leg 2 times, nothing... which im thankfull for...sorry man didnt mean to sound harsh or anything im just wondering if ur freakin a bit, and yes u have right to be a bit on edge, with all this stuff as of late with clots, and all this other stuff, even tho my test was low, i might say forget it and come off t all together and just focus on health and optimizing my adrenal glands, thyroid, preg and dhea..... there HAS to be a root cause for low t, it cant just be everyone everywhere at the same dang time,,, something is in the water, and foods, and its not good for us...arsenic, floruide etc...

another route one may try to go, is chelation therapy? (prononounced key lation) RESEARCH CHELATION THERAPY, EDTA FOR IRON (HEMATOCRIT, RBC'S ETC) AND phosphatidylcholine FOR CHOLESTEROL

 

[Kquad]

I chatted via email a week ago. He said it is far more likely this is testosterone than cancer related. It does not help that I am going through testosterone withdrawal. Fatique and anxiety are constant. I feel like dead man walking half the time.

I am 46 , so if you are younger your chance of cancer is even lower. I had a chat with an oncologist. Based on one steady my max risk is 2 percent and after my CT just under 1%. That scan is Monday. The real reason I am freaking out is I have had a sore throat for 4 months and they see nothing. I can convince myself it is cancer easily. I could sweat 1-2% fairly well if I was not in constant pain with no explanation

 

[J2048b]

I chatted via email a week ago. He said it is far more likely this is testosterone than cancer related. It does not help that I am going through testosterone withdrawal. Fatique and anxiety are constant. I feel like dead man walking half the time.

I am 46 , so if you are younger your chance of cancer is even lower. I had a chat with an oncologist. Based on one steady my max risk is 2 percent and after my CT just under 1%. That scan is Monday. The real reason I am freaking out is I have had a sore throat for 4 months and they see nothing. I can convince myself it is cancer easily. I could sweat 1-2% fairly well if I was not in constant pain with no explanation

ok a sour throat? strep perhaps? thyroid issue?? also get ur adrenal glands checked, i got a doc whom i found on another forum who is working with me right now and i did a 24 saliva test and BAM came back that on a scale of 9 being worst for adrenal failure mine was a damn 7!!!

i went cold turkey withought test from last october to april 2015, talk about feeling shitty


with ur throat, have u ever smoked or chewed tobacco? get a throat scope done man and get some answers unless thats what the doc is doing monday???

throat soreness for a month, do u have any allergies? any meds ur taking might be interacting with each other???

just shooten some suggestions out

 

[Kquad]

ok a sour throat? strep perhaps? thyroid issue?? also get ur adrenal glands checked, i got a doc whom i found on another forum who is working with me right now and i did a 24 saliva test and BAM came back that on a scale of 9 being worst for adrenal failure mine was a damn 7!!!

i went cold turkey withought test from last october to april 2015, talk about feeling shitty


with ur throat, have u ever smoked or chewed tobacco? get a throat scope done man and get some answers unless thats what the doc is doing monday???

throat soreness for a month, do u have any allergies? any meds ur taking might be interacting with each other???

just shooten some suggestions out

Don't get me started. I have seen more Docs than I can count in 4 months. I have no thyroid. I had milder pain 3 years ago and they yanked it out thinking it was cancer. It was not. I keep going and have been scoped, They note some sores that come and go ( different areas), slightly red and irritated and one tonsil is marginally inflamed.

They even biopsied it once, but she missed the spot she wanted. I then clotted and was thrown on coumadin, so no biopsies until I am off that I have not done any tobacco, Binge drink about once a decade for a few weeks at a time. So alcohol should not be much of a factor, because I do not drink in between.

I have terrible allergies and was just started on singular 4 days ago. That may be helping with the pain, but is making me hoarse a bit. I was just told I am allergic to everything and that severe allergies can inflame a tonsil.

So, I asked about reflux and they said that and allergies are probably the cause, but they are not sure.So here I am in the ER (thinking I have pneumonia as I waited 2 days to go in) They are telling me I have a clot and that cancer can cause this and do I have cancer. Man, ignorance is bliss. I wish they had not told me. Monday is a CT, she wil;l do a biopsy if needed but I have to stop the coumadin for week.

 

[Kquad]

I have 1 gene MTHFR C667T and a homcysteine of 9, Could that be an issue. As I posted elsewhere. My estardiol was in the 40s and I was dehydrated

 

[J2048b]

Don't get me started. I have seen more Docs than I can count in 4 months. I have no thyroid. I had milder pain 3 years ago and they yanked it out thinking it was cancer. It was not. I keep going and have been scoped, They note some sores that come and go ( different areas), slightly red and irritated and one tonsil is marginally inflamed.

They even biopsied it once, but she missed the spot she wanted. I then clotted and was thrown on coumadin, so no biopsies until I am off that I have not done any tobacco, Binge drink about once a decade for a few weeks at a time. So alcohol should not be much of a factor, because I do not drink in between.

I have terrible allergies and was just started on singular 4 days ago. That may be helping with the pain, but is making me hoarse a bit. I was just told I am allergic to everything and that severe allergies can inflame a tonsil.

So, I asked about reflux and they said that and allergies are probably the cause, but they are not sure.So here I am in the ER (thinking I have pneumonia as I waited 2 days to go in) They are telling me I have a clot and that cancer can cause this and do I have cancer. Man, ignorance is bliss. I wish they had not told me. Monday is a CT, she wil;l do a biopsy if needed but I have to stop the coumadin for week.

wow man, yeah thru the ringer and back sounds like me and im only 37.... tbh u need to relax a bit, and get ur adrenals looked at, they can cause a lot of stuff, wow so no thyroid and enflamed tonsils...could it be perhaps ur thyroid meds? what r u on for thyroid meds? im just trying to possibly help a bit, im not a doc or anything even close there are better people on here than i in all realms of the human bodie, but im taking interest as it is interesting to me ...