Brand New! 200 mg Test Cypionate as a starting dose.

[johndoesmith]

I am going through a Mens Clinic that (SUPPOSEDLY) specializes in this type if thing. Now I'm wondering what to do. I'm not sure about the E2, is that my Estradiol level?

Most clinics like that aren't on the cutting edge of TRT, they're more likely than not, in it for money.

I personally wouldn't take AI at all right now. You're low, chances of you having an issue with E2 is less, plus if you take an AI with your first shot, the testosterone hasn't even been absorbed yet, and an AI will absolutely crash your E2 to nothing. You will feel like complete crap.

E2 is another name for estradiol.

Also is my super low E2 level because of my super low testosterone level? I thought Estradiol levels being low was a good thing in men but maybe only to a certain point and then it's too low?

Yes. E2 is made from testosterone, if there's little testosterone, then there's little E2.

You want balance with E2, not too high, and not too low. I imagine it depends on the person, but with low E2 there are some really really harsh effects, and some long term problems too, bone loss(also explains why older women have more problems with osteoporosis) and possible increase in chance of mortality.

High has it's problems too, like gyno, and again risk of mortality is shown to increase.

You will know when it's at a good level, you'll wake up with morning wood, feel good most of the time, have a good libido and such. Of course, this all depends on your health. If you have a physical problem preventing erections, the correct E2 level for you, will not fix that.

 

[Lannis]

Ok. So given what was recommended by this clinic for the protocol:
200mg Test Cyp once per week
HCG twice per week
Aromitase Inhibitor once a week on Test Cyp injection day........What would some of you guys recommend that I alter or change? These meds will be shipped to my home and I will be self administering them so I can change this up anyway that would be best. 👍

 

[Ardoc]

As mentioned in previous replies you would be much better off to split your weekly Test Cyp dosage into two injections, every 3.5 days. Also 200 mg is about the top end for TRT and most recommend that you start low and increase as needed. 100mg/week is a much more common starting point.

 

[johndoesmith]

Ok. So given what was recommended by this clinic for the protocol:
200mg Test Cyp once per week
HCG twice per week
Aromitase Inhibitor once a week on Test Cyp injection day........What would some of you guys recommend that I alter or change? These meds will be shipped to my home and I will be self administering them so I can change this up anyway that would be best. 

What's the name of the clinic out of curiosity?

Definitely don't take the AI. You shouldn't be on one until you need it.

200mg per week is rather high, some guys can do really well on 100mg per week, split into 2. No need to use more than you need.

 

[Lannis]

Not sure if we are allowed to mention clinic names on the board but maybe someone can clarify? Anyway it's all inclusive. Meds , labs, physicals, all for one monthly fee. I was on trt with my GP 3 years ago for a short while but I felt he didn't really understand how to moniter it properly so I quit. Plus I wasn't feeling any better but I think my dose was too low at 100mg every other week..

 

[Vince Carter]

Not sure if we are allowed to mention clinic names on the board but maybe someone can clarify? Anyway it's all inclusive. Meds , labs, physicals, all for one monthly fee. I was on trt with my GP 3 years ago for a short while but I felt he didn't really understand how to moniter it properly so I quit. Plus I wasn't feeling any better but I think my dose was too low at 100mg every other week..

That's outrageous almost as bad as 200mg/week

 

[Lannis]

Ok ....So I just got off the phone with the TRT Clinic and it is 500iu twice per week on the HCG so that makes me feel a little better. Also they told me I am welcome to split my dose up..100mg every 3.5 days if I want to but they did suggest trying it the way they recommended first to see how I feel. I asked them about the AI prescribed for once a week since my E2 was in the basement and they said it will prob rise above normal without it so.....maybe stick exactly to their protocol until my next labs and see where I am?

 

[Lannis]

By the way thanks to everyone for their responses. I'm just wanting to get started and hopefully feel better soon. Feel like garbage most of the time.

 

[Vince Carter]

I don't know how many other ways we can say that an AI should never be prescribed as a "given" with HRT.

 

[Lannis]

Ok Vince thank you. I may decide to just hold off on the AI until my next labs. Unless I suppose I start having symptoms of high E2.

 

[johndoesmith]

That's outrageous almost as bad as 200mg/week

Worse IMO. 100mg per week average vs 50mg per week average. They're both terrible though.

Ok ....So I just got off the phone with the TRT Clinic and it is 500iu twice per week on the HCG so that makes me feel a little better. Also they told me I am welcome to split my dose up..100mg every 3.5 days if I want to but they did suggest trying it the way they recommended first to see how I feel. I asked them about the AI prescribed for once a week since my E2 was in the basement and they said it will prob rise above normal without it so.....maybe stick exactly to their protocol until my next labs and see where I am?

You can try it their way, but more likely than not, 1mg at once will crash E2 to almost nothing. Best way is to use as little drugs as possible, and add them in ONLY if needed. There are methods to help lower E2 without AI, such as injecting more frequently, or even lowering dose a little bit.

Unfortunately you didn't have free or SHBG tested so it's hard to say whether you'd do better with more frequent injections, but most guys usually do better with E3.5D vs E7D.

 

[CoastWatcher]

You were prescribed a cookie-cutter protocol. No thought given to you as a patient, just hand out a whopping dose of testosterone to run your levels up and allow you to feel something, giving you a sense that you got your money's worth, and throw in an AI in the hope that the far too large dose of testosterone isn't a problem when it comes to aromatization of estradiol. And HCG, why not?

You aren't being treated as an individual. Nelson has posted on this topic time and again. Sadly, guys in good faith don't know they've fallen through a trap door. Take some time to find better care. Your health is too important to leave to these charlatans.

 

[ERO]

I don't know if it is the same one, but there is a "Men's Clinic" where I live that is just awful. I spoke with them a couple of years ago and they are clueless. Everybody gets a "cookie cutter" protocol that is years out of date, they use the wrong E2 test, and to top it off, their prices are ridiculously high with a monthly fee as well. They advertise on the radio and get lots of business and I feel bad for any guy that ends up using them.

 

[Lannis]

Well. Bottom line for me is right now it's all I've got. With no ins. I will just start out with this and see how it goes. I will make my own adjustments as the lab work comes in. I can always cut back on the dosage or increase dose frequency. With my Test and estradiol at the bottom of the barrel already I know I couldn't feel much worse than I do now.

 

[Lannis]

Thank you again for all of the input.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Well. Bottom line for me is right now it's all I've got. With no ins. I will just start out with this and see how it goes. I will make my own adjustments as the lab work comes in. I can always cut back on the dosage or increase dose frequency. With my Test and estradiol at the bottom of the barrel already I know I couldn't feel much worse than I do now.

Did you sign a contract with this clinic?

 

[Lannis]

Not a contract. It is a recurring monthly charge but I can cancel anytime.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Not a contract. It is a recurring monthly charge but I can cancel anytime.

Then consider calling Defy Medical. Site sponsors, true, but I am not a patient, I have no vested interest in their success. Run Justin Saya's name in the search function here. Dr. Saya is a moderator at EM and the medical director at Defy. He is one of the most knowledgeable physicians in the US in the field of androgen therapy. Their national practice works. Many, many satisfied members here are patients. There is no recurring charge.

Depending on where you live consider Prime Body. Not a national practice in the telehealth sense that Defy is, they also have an excellent reputation.

You need better care.

 

[CSI007]

You don't want to start a protocol on an AI. Your E2 was measured with the wrong test - all men want to have estradiol tested with the sensitive, LC, MS/MS, lab procedure. But even with the wrong test, your E2 level is absurdly low. An AI should only be used when the correct lab test shows elevated levels and a patient is presenting with symptoms. Taking one now will put you in a world of misery.

I have to wonder if you're in the care of a doctor who actually is on top of this game.

His labs look very similar to mine except for the BG. Why do so many doctors start out on huge dosages (200mg+) of Testosterone and immediately put in an AI? Why not start low and move up from there. With how I feel with my E2 in the middle single digits I can't imagine throwing in a med that will lower that amount even more!

 

[lowe2sucks]

His labs look very similar to mine except for the BG. Why do so many doctors start out on huge dosages (200mg+) of Testosterone and immediately put in an AI? Why not start low and move up from there. With how I feel with my E2 in the middle single digits I can't imagine throwing in a med that will lower that amount even more!

cookie starter protocols
200mgs weekly will raise anyone's levels high enough to feel the high from high testosterone and they put ai to shutup patient for a while until the wrong protocol affects him in bad way.
not understanding the importance of having enough estradiol for person can lead to pretty nasty side effects im telling this from my own experience