When I first started TRT I was over weight by about 45 pounds. Fast forward 3 years later after a lot of hard work in the gym and also eating right I am in the best shape I have probably been my entire life. Not saying this to brag. This is more of a statement question. When I started the trt I needed to get put on an AI. My e2 was skyrocketing into the 50s. Now I don’t need to take an AU and if I do, even more old normal dose of .25 it bottoms me out for a good 2-3 weeks. And no it’s not guessing about bottoming out either. 6 weeks ago I took a normal dose of my AI the day of my injection. 3 days later did labs and found out my e2 was undectable. How come all of a sudden my body isn’t reacting well to the AI? Thanks for any responses!
Body fat and e2
- Thread starter Zooulie12
- Start date
Systemlord
Member
You lost body fat and aromatase enzymes live in fat tissue and this increases estrogen conversion, that's why you no longer need an AI.
I'm confused why you started taking the AI again if you didn't need it anymore.
I'm confused why you started taking the AI again if you didn't need it anymore.
Because I’m an idiot ‘not being a smart ass when saying that either’ What happened was I thought my e2 was creeping up a little bit again so I just took .25 of an AI. I did this last Monday after not taking an AI for almost 4 weeks. Well lone and behold fast forward to today, I am in the gutter again. Like I said though I guess I was just worried that sooner or later my e2 would get to high without the AI. But from your response it sounds like it will stabilize if you have less body fat?
Vince Carter
Banned
Notwhistanding your great progress with body fat, there's no way that thru that alone you now have no need for an AI, or that a .25mg dose crashed your E from the 50's
Systemlord
Member
If his E2 was in the 50's when taking the AI, wouldn't he have more estrogen to tie him over the next couple of days v.s taking the AI when E2 is lower having much less to hold him over the next couple of days?
As I understand it anastrozole "blocks estrogen" from being converted and doesn't affect estrogen you already have produced.
lowe2sucks
Member
why would you take AI if your e2 is not way too high? once your e2 gets high if you indeed want to lower it for whatever reason you take a small dose AI to prevent it test from aromatising on next couple of days.. thats true it doesnt affect e2 that was already there but if you take too much it can crash on you since after AI if the dose isnt very small you will not generate any estrogen.. thats how crash occurs
i totally belive when somebody says .25mg crashed them some are very sensitive to anastrozole.. some need like 0.5mg twice weekly to keep their e2 in range while others crash from small .25mg. Vince Carter if .25 wouldnt crash you doesnt mean it wouldnt crash other guys
i totally belive when somebody says .25mg crashed them some are very sensitive to anastrozole.. some need like 0.5mg twice weekly to keep their e2 in range while others crash from small .25mg. Vince Carter if .25 wouldnt crash you doesnt mean it wouldnt crash other guys
It went up to 50 when I first started 3 years ago
madman
Super Moderator
Every time in every post you always speak of one experiencing a crash as if e2 is non existent!
Brief Introduction to the AIs
The enzyme aromatase is found in the endoplasmic reticulum of the estrogen-producing cell and is the key enzyme in estrogen biosynthesis. The enzyme aromatase is able to convert testosterone into estradiol and androstenedione into estrone. Aromatase activity has been demonstrated in gonads, placenta, brain[33], adipose tissue[34,35], muscle [36], hair [37], bone [38], and vascular tissue [39].
AIs are classified as either type 1 (steroidal) or type2 (nonsteroidal). Examples of steroidal AIs are testolactone, formestane, and exemestane, which inhibit aromatase activity by mimicking the substrate androstenedione. They irreversibly inhibit the aromatase enzyme by covalently binding to it; as such they are also known as “suicidal inhibitors.”
Nonsteroidal AIs inhibit enzyme activity by reversibly binding with the heme iron of the enzyme, resulting in competitive inhibition. Examples of nonsteroidal AIs are aminoglutethimide, fadrozole, anastrozol, letrozole, and vorozole (Table 1).
AIs are further classified into generations based on their efficacy. First generation inhibitors (e.g., aminoglutethimide) are relatively weak and nonspecific, whereas third generation AIs (e.g., letrozole and anastrozole) are most potent, most specific, and least toxic. Their pharmacokinetic properties (t1/2 of 48 hours for ansatrozole and letrozole and t1/2 of 27 hours for exemestane) allow for a once-daily dosing schedule. Their selective inhibitory properties negate the need for corticosteroidal or mineralocorticoid supplementation, which is essential for the nonspecific AI aminogluthimide. The second generation AIs are in between with regard to potency, specificity, and toxicity (e.g., formestane and fadrozole). Third generation AIs have been reported to have close to 100% inhibition of the enzyme, but this is not the case in males. In men, third-generation AIs will decrease the mean plasma estradiol/testosterone ratio by 77% [41,42].This can be explained by the higher plasma concentration of testosterone in eugonal adult men compared with women. .Because inhibition of aromatase is dose dependent, aromatase is less suppressed in the testis compared with adipose and muscle, thus explaining the incomplete efficacy of aromatase inhibition in males. The molar ratio of testosterone to AI and testicular aromatase activity is higher compared with adipose and muscle tissue. As mentioned earlier in this article, low estradiol levels are detrimental to bone health and sexual function. Thus, this incomplete suppression may be advantageous to men,and this lowers the risk of the potential side effects of AIs. Long-term use of potent AIs reduces circulating estradiol levels by 88% [43]. This is associated with adverse effects on bone [44,45] and could possibly be associated with increased body fat in men [22].
So you said this was the first dose you had taken in 4 weeks, which means 4 weeks prior you had been taking an ai, correct? What dose were you taking, how often, snd how long had you been taking it?
madman
Super Moderator
Unlike females, the use of aromatase inhibitors in men does not totally suppress oestrogen secretion (reduction of circulating oestrogen is approx. 70% and can reach 80% in the case of co-administration of androgens). The explanation of incomplete enzyme inhibition is the increased aromatase sensitivity in adipose, brain and other tissues, compared to testicular aromatase, which is resistant to inhibition
I was taking .25 once a week. I was always feeling pretty crappy and decided to get labs. My e2 came back undectable. My doctor said stop the AI and I probably don’t need it anymore. Fast forward 4 weeks after not taking any AI, I thought maybe my e2 was getting a little high so I took .25 of the anastrolze. That was last Monday (when I took the .25), now moving forward to today I am still having all the symptoms of low e2. Joint pain, agitation, consitpation, can barely get it up, super low sex drive. I guess the reason I took it also was because I thought high e2 effects your sex drive worse then low e2. My dose of my trt is 60mg twice a week. I do Monday and Thursday.
Where does your SHBG sit? If your E2 was in the 50's when you started and you were overweight, it most likely has gone down naturally just from the decrease in visceral body fat. And depending on your SHBG, 50's isn't as high as you think for E2. So now that you've lost 45lbs, your E2 might be sitting very nicely. And ai's are strong. A lot stronger than we all probably think. I'm still learning this the hard way myself, so don't feel bad. My total T was 1613, SHBG was 45, and here were my E2 numbers. This was while on a quarter tab of Aromasin E5D.
E2 Sensitive - 58
E2 NOT Sensitive - 68
E2 Free - 1.48 (0.2-1.5)
I personally want to try and get my E2 in the 35-45 range if I can. So I thought, I'll just bump it up to a quarter tab of Aromasin E3D. Which isn't much of a difference. But here were my next set of labs
Total T - 1324 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free T - 169.5 (46.0-224.0)
SHBG 45 (10-50)
E2 Sensitive - 10
E2 NOT Sensitive - 15
E2 Free - 0.33 (0.2-1.5)
So as you see, I bottomed my E2 out, due to the ai being a little stronger than I thought, and obviously as well as not foreseeing my total testosterone dropping. Even if my testosterone would of maintained in the 1600's, I think I might of still overshot my E2 a bit. Either way, ai's are stronger than most think. I mean just look at how strong a quarter tab E3D can be in my case. So if 0.25mg of anastrozole tanked your E2, my guess is that your E2 was probably in an ideal range prior to taking the ai, and whatever negative symptoms you were experiencing were most likely not E2 related.
E2 Sensitive - 58
E2 NOT Sensitive - 68
E2 Free - 1.48 (0.2-1.5)
I personally want to try and get my E2 in the 35-45 range if I can. So I thought, I'll just bump it up to a quarter tab of Aromasin E3D. Which isn't much of a difference. But here were my next set of labs
Total T - 1324 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free T - 169.5 (46.0-224.0)
SHBG 45 (10-50)
E2 Sensitive - 10
E2 NOT Sensitive - 15
E2 Free - 0.33 (0.2-1.5)
So as you see, I bottomed my E2 out, due to the ai being a little stronger than I thought, and obviously as well as not foreseeing my total testosterone dropping. Even if my testosterone would of maintained in the 1600's, I think I might of still overshot my E2 a bit. Either way, ai's are stronger than most think. I mean just look at how strong a quarter tab E3D can be in my case. So if 0.25mg of anastrozole tanked your E2, my guess is that your E2 was probably in an ideal range prior to taking the ai, and whatever negative symptoms you were experiencing were most likely not E2 related.
So do you know how long it took you for you to get back to your normal range? It’s been a week and a half for me and I am still struggling a little bit. With the libido, ED, also my knee caps hurt like hell at times. I don’t know why but it seems my scalp gets itchy as hell as well.
Unforunately I’m not back to normal yet. I just stopped taking the ai 5 days ago. I’m still definitely low, obviously. I’m lucky though, I don’t get the dry joints like others do when their E2 is too low. The main symptom I have is decreased penile sensitivity. It’s a little tmi, but I was getting a BJ 3 days ago and I literally could not finish for the life of me. Usually I can finish within 2 mins if I really want to. I also have very little problem getting an erection when my E2 is low. It does seem a little harder to keep up without constant stimulation though. Normally it will stay erect for a bit regardless of stimulation or not. Itchy scalp could be due to the low E2 drying you out. I haven’t experienced that symptom.
Yeah well your lucky in that sense. When mine goes low I literally have no desire at all. It seems like a chore. And yes it can take forever ‘if I can get it up’ to finish. Idk I feel like I just need to find my sweet spot. The problem is, once you find it. How do you stay dialed in.
Good point. It probably is difficult to stay dialed in. But i think for most guys, the range at which they are going to feel optimal is fairly wide. Although, some guys do report noticing negative symptoms if their E2 goes up 5-10 points. I feel bad for those guys. That must be very difficult. But I think, for most men, there’s probably a 20 point gap that you can stay in without feeling too many negative side effects, which I don’t think would be extremely hard to maintain.
Me, personally, I’m shooting for around 30-50, for my total E2.
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