So I started testosterone cyp a few months ago I do 50mg twice a week. Started feeling like crap a few months later, dizzy, absolutely no energy, low libido, ED issues. So went in and had some blood work done, my E2 is high!! Free t is some what low at 17, and a few other low tests. I go to the gym 2 days a week, I have completely cut out processed foods and started doing that.. I was told to start taking zink along with calcium D glucarate and that should lower my E2. I'm trying to avoid going on a AI as I have just read some mixed reviews on them. Another person said I need to be put on clomid but again I have just read some horror story about it ECT but would love to know what I should do as my doctor is clueless when it comes to this, spent a lot of time on a few groups and reading but I feel like I'm not getting anywhere..
Blood work questions
- Thread starter crazyeyes
- Start date
I wouldn't say it's low as when I first started t I was 137 so it's definitely going up....
Systemlord
Member
Iron deficiency without anemia is a real bitch! Low MCH, high RDW, you're almost there, indicates iron deficiency without anemia.
Your RDW will rise and MCHC will drop next followed by your MCV. Some men on TRT will never truly became anemic because TRT drives up the hemoglobin more strongly than with natural production.
Iron deficiency can cause low HDL.
Women with lower ferritin tend to have higher estrogen, before menopause due to losing iron when menstruating and lower estrogen with high ferritin after menopause.
Test ferritin and even if it's in range, it won't be for much longer.
You should incorporate lots of red meat into your diet.
Vitamin D and C both help absorb iron.
Your RDW will rise and MCHC will drop next followed by your MCV. Some men on TRT will never truly became anemic because TRT drives up the hemoglobin more strongly than with natural production.
Iron deficiency can cause low HDL.
Women with lower ferritin tend to have higher estrogen, before menopause due to losing iron when menstruating and lower estrogen with high ferritin after menopause.
Test ferritin and even if it's in range, it won't be for much longer.
You should incorporate lots of red meat into your diet.
Vitamin D and C both help absorb iron.
Last edited:
Seagal
Well-Known Member
The Ironman is back
Systemlord
Member
TRT, testosterone typically decreases ferritin due to the creation of higher hemoglobin because more iron is utilized.
madman
Super Moderator
Before jumping to conclusions here how many days post-injection was blood work done?
We always want to test at the true trough (lowest point) just before your next injection.
Seeing as you are injecting a standard starting dose 100 mg T/week split into twice-weekly shots (50 mg every 3.5 days) than your true trough would be 84 hrs post-injection.
You are hitting a descent TT 512 ng/dL and more importantly although your FT is healthy not somewhat low as you stated your FT was tested using the direct immunoassay which is known to be inaccurate and unreliable.
The only way to know where your FT level truly sits would be by having it tested using what would be considered the most accurate assay the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis especially in cases of altered SHBG.
If you do not have access to such (highly doubtful) if you live in the US than you would need to use/rely upon the calculated linear law-of-mass action Vermeulen (cFTV).
In order to calculate your FT you would need know your TT, SHBG and Albumin mind you one can get away with using an Albumin 4.3 g/dL (default).
Based of your lab results you are hitting a TT 512 ng/dL let alone used a known to be inaccurate assay for FT which is sitting in a healthy range not somewhat low as you stated.
Shitkicker here is how many hrs post-injection were labs done let alone your FT was never tested using an accurate assay.
Top it off that you most likely tested at or near the true trough (84 hrs) post-injection seeing as your RBCs and hematocrit are elevated which for the majority would mean your trough/steady-state FT is too high.
Just to put this in perspective if your blood work was done at the true trough and your hitting a TT 512 ng/dL than your trough FT would still be healthy if you have low/lowish SHBG and even than it would still not be too low if you have normal SHBG mind you it could be less than stellar!
Again how many days post-injection were labs done and where does your SHBG sit?
Would it be worth taking a iron supplement?? I don't eat much read meat alot of lean meat like chicken, ground chicken ECT. Right now I'm taking zink, B12, D3 and k2, along with fish oil and will be taking calcium D glucarate along with grape seed extract when it arrives. See the doc never said anything about being an anemia that's why I wanted to come here and ask the pros.
Systemlord
Member
To get your levels up quickly, yes, but I don't think you'll need the iron supplement indefinitely due incorporating red meat into your diet as chicken is low in iron.
It's common for doctors to not have much if any education in vitamins and minerals and many know nothing about your general health. Doctors are trained in men's and women's diseases, not your general health and many have no clue what's healthy.
If it were up to your doctor, you'd be on statins even with normal cholesterol. Hell there are even talking about putting children on statins instead of getting them to change their diet!
Read my signature below.
I was lost for 3 years with iron deficiency without anemia. Doctors are only taught in med school about true anemia , not without anemia.
I was diagnosed with four other conditions, treated for Gerd, and three unnecessary surgeries for what was iron deficiency without anemia.
You're not telling me anything I didn't already know, hence the statement. That's why vegans require so many supplements and turn around and call it the optimal healthy diet which causes deficiencies, lol.
The irony.
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madman
Super Moderator
After all these years on the forum you are still caught up on TT?
Peak vs trough let alone what trough FT one is hitting is what truly matters!
Not going to ask him how many days post-injection his labs were done?
Although he used a known to be inaccurate testing method for FT based off labs he is hitting a healthy FT.
Have no clue were it truly sits as again it was never tested using an accurate assay which is even more critical in cases of altered SHBG!
The majority of men running around with elevated RBCs and hematocrit is due to running to high a trough/steady-state FT.
If he truly is hitting a healthy trough FT than his peak TT, and more importantly FT and estradiol would be higher!
Systemlord
Member
Iron deficiency without anemia – a clinical challenge - PMC
One should always consider iron deficiency (without anemia) as the cause of persisting, unexplained unspecific, often severe, symptoms, regardless of the primary underlying disease. The symptoms of iron deficiency may arise from the metabolic ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
I do eat red meat maybe twice a week, I will add more and maybe take some iron pills for a bit, I plan to try a few things for 3 weeks and then get re tested and see if my E2 has gone down..
So like I said I pin Monday and thursdays so I skipped my Monday dose and had labs done Thursday (before Thursday's injection) I don't think they tested me SHBG I didn't see it on the test results I posted either, so I will call Monday and have them schedule me in to get that done.. the doctors here don't know much about hormones ECT which sucks!! My current doctor is pushing that I have a tumor on my pituitary gland which I know for a fact I don't as I have maybe 3 out of the 12 symptoms. She's going off because I have a high E2 and my fsh and lh is low.
Ferritin is at 166
madman
Super Moderator
So like I said I pin Monday and thursdays so I skipped my Monday dose and had labs done Thursday (before Thursday's injection)
Big red flag here!
This is not how it is done.
Your results will be skewed from skipping your dose!
As you may know when first starting TTh or tweaking a protocol (increasing/decreasing) the dose it will take 4-6 weeks to reach steady-state when injecting TC or TE due to the PKs..
Blood work will be done at the 6 week mark to see where said protocol (dose of T/injection frequency) has your trough (lowest point) before your next injection TT and more importantly FT, estradiol and critical blood markers RBCs, hemoglobin and hematocrit.
Your protocol (dose of T/injection frequency) needs to be kept consistent week in and week out otherwise your results will be skewed and you let alone your doctor will have no clue where your trough TT and more importantly trough FT truly sits.
Since you skipped a does you will need to have your labs redone and make sure to have your FT tested using an accurate assay which would be the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or test your SHBG and you can calculate your FT.
Your best bet would be paying out of pocket to have your FT tested by Equilibrium Dialysis using Nelson's discounted labs as it is the most cost effective option!
Requisition includes TT and FT tested using the most accurate assays (LC/MS-MS-ED)
Testosterone, Free (Equilibrium Dialysis) and Total, MS - Most Affordable and Accurate Test
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Again your current lab results are skewed due to skipping your Monday injection!
You should have let everyone know this in your opening thread let alone how many days post-injection labs were.
madman
Super Moderator
So like I said I pin Monday and thursdays so I skipped my Monday dose and had labs done Thursday (before Thursday's injection)
Big mistake here!
Yes you testing Thursday before your next injection which would have been the true trough but you skipped your injection on Monday and your labs had you hitting a descent trough TT 512 ng/dL and more importantly healthy trough FT mind you it was tested using a known to be inaccurate assay.
Even then what is critical here is your results are skewed since you skipped your injection on Monday so you basically waited a full week before getting labs done which means that your trough TT and more importantly FT will have been much higher if you never skipped your injection on Monday and stuck with a consistent protocol (dose of T/injection frequency) week in and week out!
Top it off that as I stated in my opening reply that you most likely tested at or near the true trough (84 hrs) post-injection seeing as your RBCs and hematocrit are elevated which for the majority would mean your trough/steady-state FT is too high.
Throw in your elevated estradiol to boot!
She's going off because I have a high E2 and my fsh and lh is low.
Your LH/FSH are and would be next to nil as your hpta is shutdown from the exogenous T, she should know this!
If your steady-state/trough FT is high which is most likely the case seeing as you have elevated estradiol let alone hematocrit and RBCs.
Vince
Super Moderator
I'm just saying what I need to feel good if my levels were that low or when my level were that low I felt terrible
madman
Super Moderator
Yes but you stated that his TT is low without even knowing when labs were done and his labs have him hitting a healthy FT.
Again one always needs to ask how many days labs were done post-injection before jumping to any conclusions let alone where ones trough FT truly sits as again one can easily still have a healthy/high-end trough FT with a descent TT 512 ng/dL and low/lowish SHBG.
Even than he just stated in post #13 that he is injecting Monday and Thursday and tested at the true trough but skipped the Monday injection so his trough TT 512 ng/dL and more importantly healthy trough FT is going to be a lot higher!
His lab results are skewed and even than it is clear as day he was already struggling with elevated RBCs and hematocrit!
Systemlord
Member
Red meat twice a week, that’s not enough. I eat red meat every single day. I had to stop my vitamin C and vitamin D supplements because my ferritin levels were over the normal ranges.
Systemlord
Member
Then you have something else going on. Maybe the cause of your low testosterone is still at play.
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