Blood Sugar: Metformin and Berberine

[Vince]

Berberine alleviates ox-LDL induced inflammatory factors by up-regulation of autophagy via AMPK/mTOR signaling pathway. http://translational-medicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12967-015-0450-z

 

[Vince]

I'm having difficulty with the peculiar fact that virtually all studies with berberine are from China.Recent news on that:
ScienceAlert: 80% of data in Chinese clinical trials have been fabricated
referencing this regional news article:
RFA: Chinese Clinical Trials Data 80 Percent Fabricated: Government

 

[CSI007]

I've been taking it for about a year. 1000 mg per day. No side effects that I have been able to notice. FBG drop was around 50. I had already been on Metformin and the keto diet which lowered my FBG to about 190. Adding berberine lowered it to about 140. Further dietary restrictions and some weight training have brought it to about 110 - 120. That's still higher than normal but much better than where I was at a year ago. At one point my FBG was over 500 and HbA1C was 13.5. The most recent HbA1C was 5.9.

Wow,
That is significantly higher than I am. When I was diagnose as pre-diabetes in 2013 my FBG was 124. But my labs have been all over the place since I went on a keto diet. My own testing reflects the same. Lowest last week was 102. Highest was 134! It's all over the place. :/ If I could get below 100 or 95 and keep it there I would be ecstatic.

 

[CSI007]

I'm having difficulty with the peculiar fact that virtually all studies with berberine are from China.Recent news on that:
ScienceAlert: 80% of data in Chinese clinical trials have been fabricated
referencing this regional news article:
RFA: Chinese Clinical Trials Data 80 Percent Fabricated: Government

Here is one from the U.S.

EDIT: Looks like it might contain a lot of data from China?

Looks like it actually worked slightly better then metformin.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2410097/

If you check these two charts out you will see that it is indeed very effective.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2410097/bin/nihms49995f1.gif

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2410097/table/T2/

 

[CSI007]

So after some pretty exhaustive reading, I think I am going to give this a try and see where it goes. Hopefully it doesn't kill me!

I am using a product that also has milk thistle extract in it to help with absorption. I will try to keep this thread updated with my progress.

Product should arrive Tuesday and I will start taking it that day. I will begin with my FBG tomorrow and keep records daily to see if there is progress an if so when it begins.

 

[Vince]

So after some pretty exhaustive reading, I think I am going to give this a try and see where it goes. Hopefully it doesn't kill me!

I am using a product that also has milk thistle extract in it to help with absorption. I will try to keep this thread updated with my progress.

Product should arrive Tuesday and I will start taking it that day. I will begin with my FBG tomorrow and keep records daily to see if there is progress an if so when it begins.

Sounds like a good plan.

 

[CSI007]

I will try to update this daily for at least a week or two then update less frequently but with all my FBG numbers.

Today at waking my FBG was 124 (Tested once)

Incidentally, 30 minutes after a meal of filet minion (about 10 ozs), 1/2 cup of Brussel sprouts, 4 sauteed shrimp (butter and garlic) and a tablespoon of homemade applesauce (this alone had at least 5 carbs in it) my glucose was at 99.

My wife took hers after eating pretty much what I did and hers was at 128. As far as we know she is not diabetic or pre-diabetic.

 

[Vince]

The Dawn Phenomenon – Why Are Blood Sugars High in the Morning? https://www.dietdoctor.com/the-dawn-phenomenon

 

[CSI007]

The Dawn Phenomenon – Why Are Blood Sugars High in the Morning? https://www.dietdoctor.com/the-dawn-phenomenon

I do know about that but the page has some interesting info I was not aware of. I should read before I post.

 

[CSI007]

I do know about that but the page has some interesting info I was not aware of. I should read before I post.

So to summarize that page. Glucose dumped from liver because of sugar and fat stored in liver (way to much stored). Normal to have elevated amounts as you "cleanse" the liver of the sugar.

Problem with that is I have been at LCHF diet for almost 4 years now. I would figure all that excess sugar stored would be outta there.

I am certain that I do have fatty liver cause I had a sonogram done about 15 years ago shortly after chemo and it indicated fatty liver (chemo a possible cause)

 

[CSI007]

Berberine is here.

My FBG this morning was 116.

I will take my first dose (500mg) with some lunch.

I am still undecided on how much to take. Seems like 1000mg per day is the standard for diabetes which I don't have (yet)

 

[Leesto]

Berberine is here.

My FBG this morning was 116.

I will take my first dose (500mg) with some lunch.

I am still undecided on how much to take. Seems like 1000mg per day is the standard for diabetes which I don't have (yet)

I take 1000 mg per day but on most bottles the recommended daily dosage is 1500. Like metformin it can take a few days for it to build up in your system. Since FBG naturally changes from day to day anyway it may take a week or so to identify the degree to which berberine affects your levels.

All the best to you!

 

[CSI007]

Do you split up the dose?

My bottle says to take 1 to 2 pills daily with a meal. 500mg is the dose per pill.

 

[Leesto]

Do you split up the dose?

My bottle says to take 1 to 2 pills daily with a meal. 500mg is the dose per pill.

I take 500 mg in the morning and 500 mg at night. That's not a high dosage. Several studies I have seen used 1500 mg per day.

From Examine.com:

[FONT=&quot]Berberine is supplemented for its anti-inflammatory and anti-diabetic effects. It can also improve intestinal health and lower cholesterol. Berberine is able to reduce glucose production in the liver. Human and animal research demonstrates that 1500mg of berberine, taken in three doses of 500mg each, is equally effective as taking 1500mg of metformin or 4mg glibenclamide, two pharmaceuticals for treating type II diabetes. Effectiveness was measured by how well the drugs reduced biomarkers of type II diabetes.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Berberine may also synergize with anti-depressant medication and help with body fat loss. Both of these benefits need additional evidence behind them before berberine can be recommended specifically for these reasons.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Berberine's main mechanism is partly responsible for its anti-diabetic and anti-inflammatory effects. Berberine is able to activate an enzyme called Adenosine Monophosphate-Activated Protein Kinase (AMPK) while inhibiting Protein-Tyrosine Phosphatase 1B (PTP1B).[/FONT]

 

[CSI007]

Do you take each dose with food?

 

[Leesto]

Do you take each dose with food?

The morning dose is without food. Evening is with a late dinner. I have never noticed any gastrointestinal discomfort or other side effects.

 

[CSI007]

Thank you.

 

[MikeXL]

What effect did berberine have you A1c?

You should never take a drug, a supplement, anything, that you aren't comfortable with. However, there is a significant long-term risk in not controlling blood sugar levels. I don't use Meformin, but did use Berberine for a time - was pleased, but decided to set it aside and increase my activity levels to see if (one last try) would bring things into line. They did respond. I would have turned to Metformin had those efforts failed as I strongly feel the benefits it can achieve outweigh potential risks.

 

[CoastWatcher]

What effect did berberine have you A1c?

It had risen from 5.3 to 5.6 and Berberine dropped it to 5.4 (nothing else was changed). I set it aside and increased my activity and am holding it at 5.4 w/out Bernerine. I monitor and know I can resume use should it be needed.

 

[CSI007]

Pit had risen from 5.3 to 5.6 and Nerberine dropped it to 5.4 (nothing else was changed). I set it aside and increased my activity and am holding it at 5.4 w/out Bernerine. I monitor and know I can resume use should it be needed.

Is lifting weights enough or is cardio more important?