Blood Numbers

[Gman86]

so then why you commenting on his total t of 660 and saying total is the junk test. The guys labs look great for a natural guy. This new wave of “optimization” is not a good look for people who need actual “trt”. Gman basically just admitted it he’s using more as like a p.e.d. This needs to stop on the forums that are actually trying to help sick men. Those topics belong on t-nation. Or a sub forum. It’s really mudding the waters. I’m not looking for an argument but let’s call a spade a spade.

You do realize that everyone on TRT is on a P.E.D. right? Men go on TRT to fix a deficiency and try to feel themselves again. Optimization is basically the same thing. It’s trying to feel your best while maintaining all health markers in healthy ranges. How is that different? If one were to add nandrolone, you would have to lower your T dose so that your total and free T don’t go way too above the top of the reference range. How is this the same as someone abusing steroids and P.E.D.’s? Just because you don’t understand the difference doesn’t mean people have to stop optimizing themselves or go to a steroid abusing forum

We’re all here for similar reasons. To learn how to get optimal, and/ or help others get optimal. Nobody here, that I know of, is trying to abuse these compounds.

 

[Gman86]

ive tried all that shit for years on end and actually the best I’ve felt in the last 10 years is when I get off the forums and just live life. To me that isn’t living life micro managing every aspect of my health. The body is way to complex every time I take one thing it throws something else off.

What keeps me coming back is long term. I am afraid of the consequences of having low t for so long. So far I don’t have any complications in that sense. But I worry I’m only 37 been low t since 26.

I’m in no way judging the way you want to live your life at one time I was obsessed with health and fitness. I still play hockey competitively 2-3 times a week and work a tough job I would love to feel better doing it. But lifting and worrying about that wasn’t the answer either

Appreciate the honesty. And I think it all goes back to us all just respecting eachother and not judging one another. We are all different, and all live life according to what makes us happy. Optimizing my health is just one aspect. I’m a nurse that works 50-70 hours per week, I have a kid coming next month, I spend time with my friends and family, and I just enjoy life to the fullest and try to stay happy and stress free as much time out of each day as possible. I’m 33 and have no complaints. Other than some brain fog, but even that I can’t complain too much about. Optimizing my HRT is just something I’m passionate about. I’m constantly learning and tweaking things because I thoroughly enjoy optimizing myself, and feeling as good as I can. If others want to get on a dose of T that works for them, and just go on with their life and not worry about optimizing other hormone pathways, I fully support that. I just want people to do what makes them happy. I’m here because I love learning from others, and I enjoy helping other’s on their journey if I can. I mean well, and I’m fully aware that everything in life revolves around balance. So I have no intentions of ever abusing these compounds to be superhuman or anything. Just want to be optimal, and imo, optimal means sometimes being slightly supra-physiological compared to a sick population.

 

[Charliebizz]

You do realize that everyone on TRT is on a P.E.D. right? Men go on TRT to fix a deficiency and try to feel themselves again. Optimization is basically the same thing. It’s trying to feel your best while maintaining all health markers in healthy ranges. How is that different? If one were to add nandrolone, you would have to lower your T dose so that your total and free T don’t go way too above the top of the reference range. How is this the same as someone abusing steroids and P.E.D.’s? Just because you don’t understand the difference doesn’t mean people have to stop optimizing themselves or go to a steroid abusing forum

We’re all here for similar reasons. To learn how to get optimal, and/ or help others get optimal. Nobody here, that I know of, is trying to abuse these compounds.

i see a difference in it. But it doesn’t matter we are allowed to do whatever we want with our body’s. Just some guys have different issues and come here thinking they going to get optimized yet they have a far more complex situation going on. The current state of trt is kind of getting wacky. I’m in that ******** group also. The one dr who’s a urologist says trt is easy. You take it till you get symptom relief and that’s it. The guy means well and knows his shit to a degree but that’s an ignorant statement. How many guys come through excel and trt actually exacerbates there symptoms. And or adds side effects they never had. I’m one of them. Believe me brother I wish I could get trt to work for me. It dose give me slight positives. But the negative far outweighs them.

 

[Charliebizz]

Appreciate the honesty. And I think it all goes back to us all just respecting eachother and not judging one another. We are all different, and all live life according to what makes us happy. Optimizing my health is just one aspect. I’m a nurse that works 50-70 hours per week, I have a kid coming next month, I spend time with my friends and family, and I just enjoy life to the fullest and try to stay happy and stress free as much time out of each day as possible. I’m 33 and have no complaints. Other than some brain fog, but even that I can’t complain too much about. Optimizing my HRT is just something I’m passionate about. I’m constantly learning and tweaking things because I thoroughly enjoy optimizing myself, and feeling as good as I can. If others want to get on a dose of T that works for them, and just go on with their life and not worry about optimizing other hormone pathways, I fully support that. I just want people to do what makes them happy. I’m here because I love learning from others, and I enjoy helping other’s on their journey if I can. I mean well, and I’m fully aware that everything in life revolves around balance. So I have no intentions of ever abusing these compounds to be superhuman or anything. Just want to be optimal, and imo, optimal means sometimes being slightly supra-physiological compared to a sick population.

what were your actual complaints that lead you to trt. Just curious cause my issues have to be more then just low t.

 

[Gman86]

i see a difference in it. But it doesn’t matter we are allowed to do whatever we want with our body’s. Just some guys have different issues and come here thinking they going to get optimized yet they have a far more complex situation going on. The current state of trt is kind of getting wacky. I’m in that ******** group also. The one dr who’s a urologist says trt is easy. You take it till you get symptom relief and that’s it. The guy means well and knows his shit to a degree but that’s an ignorant statement. How many guys come through excel and trt actually exacerbates there symptoms. And or adds side effects they never had. I’m one of them. Believe me brother I wish I could get trt to work for me. It dose give me slight positives. But the negative far outweighs them.

Completely agree. If it were that easy there wouldn’t be thousands of men on this forum creating posts on a regular basis. On the fb group they absolutely try to simplify things way too much, and have very little empathy for those that have continuing issues. Aside from that, they have amazing interviews and content on there on a regular basis, imo.

 

[Charliebizz]

Completely agree. If it were that easy there wouldn’t be thousands of men on this forum creating posts on a regular basis. On the fb group they absolutely try to simplify things way too much, and have very little empathy for those that have continuing issues. Aside from that, they have amazing interviews and content on there on a regular basis, imo.

thats why I stay they have some good content. And listen if I felt amazing I would probably think that people not doing well were doing something wrong too hahah. It’s human nature. I hate that I get so many sides. I wish it was simple for me who wouldn’t

 

[Gman86]

what were your actual complaints that lead you to trt. Just curious cause my issues have to be more then just low t.

Main thing was crazy brain fog. I also just felt like a shell of myself. Felt like I lost my “mojo”. My personality tanked. Didn’t want to do anything. Was irritable. Slightly depressed and anxious. And had literally none of these symptoms before in my entire life. It was so weird too. It felt like they all came on so quick. But looking back, I could see a slightly gradual process happening. I remember some days I would feel pretty good, and want to be around people and socialize, and some days I just wanted to get my day over with. I would say I had on and off days like that about 6-12 months prior to the full blown hypogonadal symptoms. Other than those symptoms, sleep was great, libido and erections were great. Muscle and fat loss definitely weren’t where they were in my teens and early 20’s. TRT cleared up everything except the brain fog, pretty much regardless of what protocol I was on.

 

[Gman86]

thats why I stay they have some good content. And listen if I felt amazing I would probably think that people not doing well were doing something wrong too hahah. It’s human nature. I hate that I get so many sides. I wish it was simple for me who wouldn’t

I hear ya. Everyone always thinks they have the answer when something works for them. They don’t get that we are all so unique and similar at the same time. What are the negative symptoms that occur when you’re on TRT?

 

[Charliebizz]

I hear ya. Everyone always thinks they have the answer when something works for them. They don’t get that we are all so unique and similar at the same time. What are the negative symptoms that occur when you’re on TRT?

I sent you a pm don’t want to hijack the thread anymore

 

[Charliebizz]

I hear ya. Everyone always thinks they have the answer when something works for them. They don’t get that we are all so unique and similar at the same time. What are the negative symptoms that occur when you’re on TRT?

I don’t know why every time I try to pm you it changes to a different member. Did you get anything from me ?

 

[Gman86]

I don’t know why every time I try to pm you it changes to a different member. Did you get anything from me ?

I did. I’m at work for another couple hours and then I’ll make sure to reply

 

[Shawn]

so then why you commenting on his total t of 660 and saying total is the junk test. The guys labs look great for a natural guy. This new wave of “optimization” is not a good look for people who need actual “trt”. Gman basically just admitted it he’s using more as like a p.e.d. This needs to stop on the forums that are actually trying to help sick men. Those topics belong on t-nation. Or a sub forum. It’s really mudding the waters. I’m not looking for an argument but let’s call a spade a spade.

Exactly my f**kin words right here. the OPs test are good and there are others who are trying to drag him into the TRT realm because they think they are doctors or something. Alot of ED is mental, even for me. if i feel stressed or negative, i wont feel horny at all. also your diet is even more important. if i eat ANYTHING processed with sugar like cakes or cookies or even a sandwich with hormoned meat, goodbye libido. at least for me. even if i eat too much yam, which contains too much estrogen. a bad diet contains ingredients that are not food and the body has to process it all which affects all your organs so why would your body be "optimal" at that point.

Also physical work is extremely important. im not talking about sitting on the couch or driving or in the office 18 hours a day and then doing squats for 10 minutes at the gym and think you're active. keep dreaming. the best i ever felt in my life was when i did zero weight training, but did landscape work outside full time and that was when i was completely natural. no TRT or juice.

the problem is people want an easy fix. its just like bodybuilding. if you want a good sex life, you have to commit to a good diet, exercise and mental clarity regimen. even on TRT, a lot of guys here suffer because they try to mickey mouse their body. too many people are on TRT these days. if you have testicular or pituitary damage, you need it. but if you cycled before and not happy that your test didn't go back up to 800 and you cant get it up like you did on cycle or before the cycle, you need to work on your diet and lifestyle more.

 

[Charliebizz]

Exactly my f**kin words right here. the OPs test are good and there are others who are trying to drag him into the TRT realm because they think they are doctors or something. Alot of ED is mental, even for me. if i feel stressed or negative, i wont feel horny at all. also your diet is even more important. if i eat ANYTHING processed with sugar like cakes or cookies or even a sandwich with hormoned meat, goodbye libido. at least for me. even if i eat too much yam, which contains too much estrogen. a bad diet contains ingredients that are not food and the body has to process it all which affects all your organs so why would your body be "optimal" at that point.

Also physical work is extremely important. im not talking about sitting on the couch or driving or in the office 18 hours a day and then doing squats for 10 minutes at the gym and think you're active. keep dreaming. the best i ever felt in my life was when i did zero weight training, but did landscape work outside full time and that was when i was completely natural. no TRT or juice.

the problem is people want an easy fix. its just like bodybuilding. if you want a good sex life, you have to commit to a good diet, exercise and mental clarity regimen. even on TRT, a lot of guys here suffer because they try to mickey mouse their body. too many people are on TRT these days. if you have testicular or pituitary damage, you need it. but if you cycled before and not happy that your test didn't go back up to 800 and you cant get it up like you did on cycle or before the cycle, you need to work on your diet and lifestyle more.

my levels are like 211 natural. I never did roids. Can’t figure out why I’ve tried everything. But trt is so damn complicated for me. I just don’t know what the right answer is.

 

[Shawn]

ive tried all that shit for years on end and actually the best I’ve felt in the last 10 years is when I get off the forums and just live life. To me that isn’t living life micro managing every aspect of my health. The body is way to complex every time I take one thing it throws something else off.

What keeps me coming back is long term. I am afraid of the consequences of having low t for so long. So far I don’t have any complications in that sense. But I worry I’m only 37 been low t since 26.

I’m in no way judging the way you want to live your life at one time I was obsessed with health and fitness. I still play hockey competitively 2-3 times a week and work a tough job I would love to feel better doing it. But lifting and worrying about that wasn’t the answer either

this is your problem. worrying about it. this affects your entire body and deteriorates you at a cellular level. all your organs become affected. people develop lots of issues even cancer from their negative outlook. if you think you will have low levels, you WILL. if you think you will recover, you WILL. so long as there isnt some pituitary or testicular damage that has been ruled out.

 

[Charliebizz]

this is your problem. worrying about it. this affects your entire body and deteriorates you at a cellular level. all your organs become affected. people develop lots of issues even cancer from their negative outlook. if you think you will have low levels, you WILL. if you think you will recover, you WILL. so long as there isnt some pituitary or testicular damage that has been ruled out.

honestly bro I would say your out of your mind. But trt hasn’t helped me and I’m ok with low levels. Less side effects. When I convince my self trt is no good I end up not visiting the forums and just living life obviously I come back here cause I don’t feel great but I also don’t treat my body great diet isn’t great sleep habits are terrible by most standards. I’m always on the go. So you could be right with me brother

 

[Shawn]

look i wrote this long ass post but then changed my mind about it because i know people wont bother doing what i say but...your libido and all that boils down to your lifestyle. you have to have a perfect diet. cant eat processed food. then there is the exercise part of it. you have to be physically active most of the time. in the 21st century, the bankers have dictated your life to be sedentary with poison for food, air and water. its no surprise the entire world's fertility is going down. you can take inject all the hormones you want, sit around eating cookies while reading these forums. all you're doing is harming the energy system that produces your hormones by participating in these 3 events, and 4 being your overly obsessed with it, harming you even more.

you have to try to live like an animal. like humans lived 5000 years ago, in ancient times. eat more whole foods, eat less, dont go on your computer as much or sit around too much, go do something active, just accept it if you want a good libido. for some, TRT works great. i have a friend on it but he was always horny no matter what. he just doesnt want to stop because he doesnt want to lose his sex life and his strength in the gym. hes also fat but if he got off, he wouldnt have anything. but his regimen does not come without consequences. his E2 is always up and down and he has to use viagra to have sex. hes only 44 and been doing that for the last 15-20 years at least since he started juicing

i was on HRT for 8 years bro. started at 28 when i was 392 and thought i was low but i was perfectly fine. i was sitting around on the computer too much eating in an out burgers.... it took me 9 months to get off it, tapering down 10% each month. i changed my entire lifestyle. i lived like a monk and i ended up at 62ng. a year later im at 285, i test it every 2 months, and im averaging about 30ng or so increase each time.

i only signed on here because i got an email about this forum and i remember my threads here. i tried to stop cold turkey 2 years ago. i wont go into detail but it was so horrific, i could not even SPEAK. i had to go back on and then in march 2018 i started tapering down. couldnt take it anymore. i had to get off.

 

[Charliebizz]

Longest I was ever on was 8 months straight. I can get off cold turkey almost no problem. Plus it never makes me feel better anyway so can’t get much lower lol

 

[Shawn]

first year on it was ok because it was like cycling. i had asked other members from other forums how to titrate everything. it was so mickey moused, i was always anxious. all these drugs. the E2, then the arimidex to lower that E2 along with more toxic chemicals from that, what a mess. and HCG itself full of chemicals who knows where from. plus test has other solvents in there. it just all fucks with you. at least with me. those on it that feel decent do have sides, they just would rather be able to train and have sex and live with their sides, whatever they may be, anxiety, stress, or for some, blood problems, heart problems, liver or kidney problems, who knows. for me it just wasnt worth it. you will feel better when you drop all the processed food and go outside, be physically active and forget all this stuff. the human body is designed to function properly. those who deviate from the natural habitat will face complications and disease.