Aromasin

[McBruce]

Hi Folks,

My current protocol is 8.75mg cyp daily, 100iu hcg daily, all subq, and 6.25mg aromasin every 4 days, that gives the below.

Do you think its time to maybe try drop the AI? Am I right in thinking the AI half life of aromasin is 24hrs, so if I stop and do bloods in 2 weeks, is that enough time for stability and to check E2?

Ive been on TRT for 6 months, the hCg element basically spiked my total T beyond 50nmol that gave a high E2 of 260pmol and its effects but after a bit of time its settled down to roughly below with a small reduction in dose.

I wasn't too sure if my free T is running a bit high but I get its a bit trickier with my shbg being a bit lower, all my shbgs have ranged from 14-20 over last 5-6 tests, including pre TRT bloods.

 

[Seagal]

Did you try without HCG? Not everybody needs it.
Imo you could adjust your doses to achieve free T within normal range. E2 should then come down too and you could discontinue the AI.
It's trial and error.

 

[WhiteMale]

Wrong Estrogen testing but that's symptom based and you're aware of that.

The thing is...with your SHBG, you're Free T, you can probably be assured that your Free Estrogen, this is testable, is probably mirroring a high point as well. Logical assumption that can be verified with the blood test. I used to get the Ultra LC/MS/MS and Free Estrogen tests all the time. Now I only run Free E.
If you want to clip some of your estrogen possibility I would go EOD with HCG or just drop it entirely. It's really not necessary and is just a blanket addition to a protocol. Use of HCG really didn't effect me at all and when I dropped nothing changed.
If you need the AI, you should use it and NOT fall in this trap that it's bad for you. Treat your symptoms, do not suppress Estrogen to zero, and you should be fine.

I would either modify the HCG or have a third AI dose. do one or the other and not both and judge your symptoms of E, if any. As well, ad those correct Estrogen tests. No one tests or monitors Oestradiol.

 

[McBruce]

bare in mind im a noob to this, I haven't explored without HCG, mainly because im still settling into the protocol and my Dr is quite keen on the hCg use and I wanted to try it, I liked the idea of mimicing LH and keeping intra testicular testosterone production, especially if im in this for the long run. I do wish to try without in the future obviously to compare one treatment vs other but first I want to try get a period of stability and find my feet with minimal changes initially to set a good baseline so I can better judge if it works for me or not going forward.

with testing for estrogen, I can't find any of those tests, I'm in the UK so perhaps our small private sector in the testing field seems very limited compared to the states. All the UK tests are oestridial (E2) sadly.. unless anyone knows and can point me towards one?

I was thinking my E2 was getting a bit low (converted to 13pg/mL) instead of trying to reduce it further, mainly because my AI dose was introduced when my total T was 50nmol (which is 1400 ng/dl, E2 was 70pg/mL), my dose has remained the same and everything starting to stabilise, my doc did say my testes was working well and he expected a pull back as the efficacy of the hcg reduces, which has happened.

My baseline E2 prior to TRT was 100 pmol/l which is mid-range, now im low range.

 

[Seagal]

bare in mind im a noob to this, I haven't explored without HCG, mainly because im still settling into the protocol and my Dr is quite keen on the hCg use and I wanted to try it, I liked the idea of mimicing LH and keeping intra testicular testosterone production, especially if im in this for the long run. I do wish to try without in the future obviously to compare one treatment vs other but first I want to try get a period of stability and find my feet with minimal changes initially to set a good baseline so I can better judge if it works for me or not going forward.

with testing for estrogen, I can't find any of those tests, I'm in the UK so perhaps our small private sector in the testing field seems very limited compared to the states. All the UK tests are oestridial (E2) sadly.. unless anyone knows and can point me towards one?

I was thinking my E2 was getting a bit low (converted to 13pg/mL) instead of trying to reduce it further, mainly because my AI dose was introduced when my total T was 50nmol (which is 1400 ng/dl, E2 was 70pg/mL), my dose has remained the same and everything starting to stabilise, my doc did say my testes was working well and he expected a pull back as the efficacy of the hcg reduces, which has happened.

My baseline E2 prior to TRT was 100 pmol/l which is mid-range, now im low range.

That sounds reasonable. Your TT is high, then your TE can be high too. Didn't your Dr recommend dropping the AI?

 

[McBruce]

No, my last appt with doc my E2 numbers wernt close to range low. Ie my T was 16nmol (460ng/dL), FT 0.55 nmol (16ng/dL) and E2 100pmol (27pg/mL) he was happy to move me onto 6 monthly reviews. I continued getting bloods to check for my own learning / understanding until I get the confidence the numbers have settled, since then the results in the OP was my last ones. Ie T/FT increased a little and E2 dropped.

Since E2 was mid range then I suspect it wasn’t a prob now it’s wondering low range but T is up a little. Whether it’s related or not I did have a fatty lump under the skin at injection point so I’ve rotated sites, whether this affects uptake I don’t know.

 

[Seagal]

Probably best to act only if you have high E2 symptoms, especially if you cannot get the "sensitive" E2 test.
@Nelson Vergel provides all the accurate testings.
Unfortunately I cannot make use of his great service because I'm in Europe like you.