Anyone on 200mg + HCG without an AI?

[Cataceous]

Like I said if all the indications of mortality are in line is it really a worry ?

I think we're just scratching the surface of "indications of mortality". Here's how I view the risk situation: When I'm driving down the road, if I go too fast or too slow I am more likely to be stopped and get a ticket. If I don't stray too far from the average speed of everyone else then I'm pretty safe. But if I end up going twice as fast as what most people are doing then I'm much more likely to get in trouble.

An estradiol level of 115 pg/mL in non-dysfunctional men is probably something like a minimum of ten standard deviations above average. Assume it's only six. The expected frequency for this is roughly one in a billion. Do you really want to be that unusual?

 

[Charliebizz]

I think we're just scratching the surface of "indications of mortality". Here's how I view the risk situation: When I'm driving down the road, if I go too fast or too slow I am more likely to be stopped and get a ticket. If I don't stray too far from the average speed of everyone else then I'm pretty safe. But if I end up going twice as fast as what most people are doing then I'm much more likely to get in trouble.

An estradiol level of 115 pg/mL in non-dysfunctional men is probably something like a minimum of ten standard deviations above average. Assume it's only six. The expected frequency for this is roughly one in a billion. Do you really want to be that unusual?

i get that but if I had to choose feeling good with e2 of 115. Or be on an a.i I would choose 115 e2. If I was concerned about my e2 I would adjust my t dose. I personally will never touch an a.i. Even back almost 10 years ago dr crisler tried to give me them I respectfully told him I will never touch them. I’d rather have low t then be on a.i

 

[Cataceous]

i get that but if I had to choose feeling good with e2 of 115. Or be on an a.i I would choose 115 e2. If I was concerned about my e2 I would adjust my t dose. I personally will never touch an a.i. Even back almost 10 years ago dr crisler tried to give me them I respectfully told him I will never touch them. I’d rather have low t then be on a.i

Each person must weigh the risks for himself. In such an extreme case I would favor bringing down estradiol by whatever means. Obviously a dose reduction would be preferred. But if that wasn't possible then I'd view AI use as preferable to ultra-high estradiol, provided it did not cause side effects.

 

[Charliebizz]

Each person must weigh the risks for himself. In such an extreme case I would favor bringing down estradiol by whatever means. Obviously a dose reduction would be preferred. But if that wasn't possible then I'd view AI use as preferable to ultra-high estradiol, provided it did not cause side effects.

Ucfguy has a ton of wiggle room between t dose and Hcg to adjust and not need an a.i imo

 

[BigBamBoo]

Something else to remember....when you stop your AI...or TRT for that matter....your E “rebounds“.
So pulling labs two weeks after stopping your AI might have just been a brief spike as you body needs time to adjust to the new norm.

Depending on your SHBG level, running a higher E2 maybe fine for you.

I have SHBG levels in the 70’s and have had E2 in the high 60’s with no real adverse effects as far as I could tell.

I seem to over respond to AI and so talking it is not an option.

Adjusting your T dose....either lowering amount...or dosing frequency (or both) has been known to lower E2 levels.

Everyone is different and you need to find what works for you.

 

[Cataceous]

Something else to remember....when you stop your AI...or TRT for that matter....your E “rebounds“.
So pulling labs two weeks after stopping your AI might have just been a brief spike as you body needs time to adjust to the new norm.
...

Somewhat tangential, but is there any hard evidence for this? I know that anastrozole, for example, only temporarily ties up aromatase. So when you stop the drug estradiol can rebound relatively fast compared to exemestane, which forces regeneration of aromatase.

But the claim seems to be that estradiol temporarily rebounds to a higher level than baseline. This should only occur if the suppression of estradiol resulted in a higher levels of aromatase. But is this really the case?

 

[BigBamBoo]

Again, everyone is different...so....

But what is pretty much the case is that E fallows T and when you raise our T...E is going to be elevated too.

To what extent comes down to the individual. And again, SHBG plays a big part on how much free E...and T...is circulating in your system at ay given time.

So as far as your E going back to baseline while on TRT, I would think it would not.
But it should find a new norm if you let your body adjust to the new levels. From what folks say...that is normally 2-3 months after any protocol change.

I am not any kind of authority on TRT so please do your own research.
I do know what I have observed in my own TRT journey based on my labs and how I felt.

 

[Bryan_K77]

This is my understanding as well. Testosterone doesn’t convert to E2 in the blood, test aromatizes into E2 in the tissue, and free T is what’s activating androgen receptors in different areas in the body. So if free T is the only thing getting into the tissue to aromatize, then total T is irrelevant, again, from my understanding.

My man spitting knowledge right here. That’s the Hordan Grant school of hormone therapy

 

[Bryan_K77]

My man spitting knowledge right here. That’s the Hordan Grant school of hormone therapy

*Jordan Grant*

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

*Jordan Grant*

FYI, there is an Edit button.

 

[lowtdunce]

I've been doing 200mg with 1000IU HCG a week and highest my E2 sensitive gets is 50. Total T peak around 1400, trough 1100. I'm in the camp that as long as Free T is high E2 can land where it wants to as long as I don't have any symptoms. All the info seems to say that high E2 is only a problem when T is too low to balance it out.

 

[AdamYoung]

I've been doing 200mg with 1000IU HCG a week and highest my E2 sensitive gets is 50. Total T peak around 1400, trough 1100. I'm in the camp that as long as Free T is high E2 can land where it wants to as long as I don't have any symptoms. All the info seems to say that high E2 is only a problem when T is too low to balance it out.

That makes sense. Its about T/E ratio not just estrogen number.

 

[Charliebizz]

I've been doing 200mg with 1000IU HCG a week and highest my E2 sensitive gets is 50. Total T peak around 1400, trough 1100. I'm in the camp that as long as Free T is high E2 can land where it wants to as long as I don't have any symptoms. All the info seems to say that high E2 is only a problem when T is too low to balance it out.

But usually if you low t your low e. E follows t. Last check before trt my tt was 168 and e2 was 10