Any concerns about long term anastrozole use in men?

[BruceWayne]

I think in 20 years we will see men now taking anastrozole at a dose over .5 mg per week experience bone loss and fractures. Of course, I am just speculating.

It my person opinion that Nelson is very right about this. The effects of anastrozole go far beyond lowering estrogen. I believe this is why Nelson has been able to take testosterone for twenty years with no ill effects. When you raise testosterone, the body will seek homeostasis and increase estrogen. In severely hypogonadal men, some have very low bone density and libido, yet some still have normal bone density and libido even in the presence of low testosterone. The ones who maintain bone density and libido are the ones who have the highest estrogen.

 

[Systemlord]

It my person opinion that Nelson is very right about this. The effects of anastrozole go far beyond lowering estrogen. I believe this is why Nelson has been able to take testosterone for twenty years with no ill effects. When you raise testosterone, the body will seek homeostasis and increase estrogen. In severely hypogonadal men, some have very low bone density and libido, yet some still have normal bone density and libido even in the presence of low testosterone. The ones who maintain bone density and libido are the ones who have the highest estrogen.

I think a lot of people confuse high estrogen symptoms with the way testosterone causes an increase in aldosterone, that tells the kidneys to hold onto more sodium ->water, therefore increasing blood pressure -> triggering anxiety.

High blood pressure and anxiety causes ED.

 

[BruceWayne]

I know of no studies that show higher estrogen causes health problems, I know of many that show that blocking or reducing estrogen in relation to testosterone can have major health risks. I have researched reproductive endocrinology for over forty years and have seen and had in depth discussions with one of the leading reproductive endocrinologists in the country. There is a reason that doctors like him do not normally prescribe estrogen inhibitors or blockers. There is no empirical data to support their use for hypogonadism. I have read many of these threads where people have perfectly normal testosterone levels, yet they are on testosterone. They have read about what someone thinks the "optimum" level of testosterone is for a given age. In reality most of these people want to have supraphysiological levels of testosterone. Make no mistake there are long term risks with this. Just take a look at the disproportionate number of bodybuilders and wrestlers that have heart attacks or heart failure. Just to name a few Kevin Randleman died of pneumonia and heart failure as a result of steriod use, age 42. Casey Viator died from a massive heart attack on his 62nd birthday. Mike Mentzer died from heart complications at the age of 49. Ray Mentzer died two days after finding his brother Mike dead, Ray died from kidney failure listed as caused by Berger's disease after many years of heavy sterioid use, age 47. Mike Matarazzo died from heart disease at the age of 48, he had his first massive heart attack in his late thirties, he had a second one three years later. He had no quality of life with only twenty percent heart function until his death in 2014, as a side note he attributed his heart problems to his steroid use and said if he could repeat it he would never use them. Randy Savage died from a massive heart attack at age 58 brought on by severe atherosclerosis. Ultimate Warrior, birth name James Brian Hellwig, died at the age of 54 from a massive heart attack. Let me be clear I am not against middle-aged men using Testosterone for quality of life in replacement doses to the upper range of normal, however, even this comes with a risk benefit ratio. Which the person needs to be aware of and make their own decision. However, telling other people there are no risks to taking anastrozole or testosterone is simply not true, and is a disservice to all involved. I would like to add, I know all the arguments for taking supraphysiological doses of testosterone and heard them from a very dear friend for years. Like, there are risks from everything. You could die from a plane crash, driving or crossing the road. My friend started his high doses of testosterone in his teenage years and frankly looked like a million dollars. Sadly, he died at the age of thirty-six and was sorry he ever used testosterone as he had a perfectly normal testosterone level before use. Just wanted to look big and strong! Please forgive the long post.

 

[BadassBlues]

I know of no studies that show higher estrogen causes health problems, I know of many that show that blocking or reducing estrogen in relation to testosterone can have major health risks. I have researched reproductive endocrinology for over forty years and have seen and had in depth discussions with one of the leading reproductive endocrinologists in the country. There is a reason that doctors like him do not normally prescribe estrogen inhibitors or blockers. There is no empirical data to support their use for hypogonadism. I have read many of these threads where people have perfectly normal testosterone levels, yet they are on testosterone. They have read about what someone thinks the "optimum" level of testosterone is for a given age. In reality most of these people want to have supraphysiological levels of testosterone. Make no mistake there are long term risks with this. Just take a look at the disproportionate number of bodybuilders and wrestlers that have heart attacks or heart failure. Just to name a few Kevin Randleman died of pneumonia and heart failure as a result of steriod use, age 42. Casey Viator died from a massive heart attack on his 62nd birthday. Mike Mentzer died from heart complications at the age of 49. Ray Mentzer died two days after finding his brother Mike dead, Ray died from kidney failure listed as caused by Berger's disease after many years of heavy sterioid use, age 47. Mike Matarazzo died from heart disease at the age of 48, he had his first massive heart attack in his late thirties, he had a second one three years later. He had no quality of life with only twenty percent heart function until his death in 2014, as a side note he attributed his heart problems to his steroid use and said if he could repeat it he would never use them. Randy Savage died from a massive heart attack at age 58 brought on by severe atherosclerosis. Ultimate Warrior, birth name James Brian Hellwig, died at the age of 54 from a massive heart attack. Let me be clear I am not against middle-aged men using Testosterone for quality of life in replacement doses to the upper range of normal, however, even this comes with a risk benefit ratio. Which the person needs to be aware of and make their own decision. However, telling other people there are no risks to taking anastrozole or testosterone is simply not true, and is a disservice to all involved. I would like to add, I know all the arguments for taking supraphysiological doses of testosterone and heard them from a very dear friend for years. Like, there are risks from everything. You could die from a plane crash, driving or crossing the road. My friend started his high doses of testosterone in his teenage years and frankly looked like a million dollars. Sadly, he died at the age of thirty-six and was sorry he ever used testosterone as he had a perfectly normal testosterone level before use. Just wanted to look big and strong! Please forgive the long post.

Good post, but for the sake of my eyesight, please use paragraphs...

I agree with much of what you said, the potential risks and benefits of anything need to be weighed and applied to the individual making the decision. I follow the HRT paradigm rather than the TOT, that is my personal choice because I am a believer in balance. But to the subject of the post, anastrozole use in men on HRT, I believe much of the conventional thinking has changed since this post was written in 2015.

Like many, I took small doses of anastrozole in the beginning of my HRT journey to try and get my E2 numbers in what was then considered the sweet spot. I discontinued anastrozole years ago and have never looked back.

I am personally against using any aromatase inhibitors for HRT purposes. I don't believe that they are dangerous, just unhealthy and unnatural. As for the BB and TOT crowd, they take a different approach to risk vs benefits. That is a personal decision. And to your point, it's good to have all of the information available so you can make a calculated decision.

How to Write Strong Paragraphs

Paragraphs are medium-sized units of writing, longer than sentences, but shorter than sections, chapters, or entire…

www.grammarly.com

What is a paragraph?​

A paragraph is a unit of writing that consists of one or more sentences, all of which relate to the same topic. Paragraphs are essential for organizing long pieces of writing such as novels, papers, or even emails. Each paragraph should focus on a single topic

 

[Nelson Vergel]

estradiol lab test

estradiol sensitive test description

www.discountedlabs.com

 

[BruceWayne]

Good post, but for the sake of my eyesight, please use paragraphs...

I agree with much of what you said, the potential risks and benefits of anything need to be weighed and applied to the individual making the decision. I follow the HRT paradigm rather than the TOT, that is my personal choice because I am a believer in balance. But to the subject of the post, anastrozole use in men on HRT, I believe much of the conventional thinking has changed since this post was written in 2015.

Like many, I took small doses of anastrozole in the beginning of my HRT journey to try and get my E2 numbers in what was then considered the sweet spot. I discontinued anastrozole years ago and have never looked back.

I am personally against using any aromatase inhibitors for HRT purposes. I don't believe that they are dangerous, just unhealthy and unnatural. As for the BB and TOT crowd, they take a different approach to risk vs benefits. That is a personal decision. And to your point, it's good to have all of the information available so you can make a calculated decision.

How to Write Strong Paragraphs

Paragraphs are medium-sized units of writing, longer than sentences, but shorter than sections, chapters, or entire…

www.grammarly.com

What is a paragraph?​

A paragraph is a unit of writing that consists of one or more sentences, all of which relate to the same topic. Paragraphs are essential for organizing long pieces of writing such as novels, papers, or even emails. Each paragraph should focus on a single topic

Sorry, I did not realize this site had grammar moderators.

 

[BadassBlues]

Sorry, I did not realize this site had grammar moderators.

Well, it's not a capital offense by any means, but if a person takes the time to write a post such as you did, it's a good idea to make it easily readable. Now if you had done it all in caps...

 

[BruceWayne]

View attachment 38156

estradiol lab test

estradiol sensitive test description

www.discountedlabs.com

I would agree with everything Nelson has said in this post. In fact there was a study not long ago on TRT clinics. It analyzed TRT clinics across the country and the use of aromatase inhibitors. It found that the men with the lowest estrogen had the lowest libido, and the men with the highest estrogen had the highest libido and sexual function.

 

[Fernando Almaguer]

Long-Term Side Effects of Aromatase Inhibitors in Women with Breast Cancer​

Aromatase inhibitors (AIs) are a class of drugs commonly used in the treatment of hormone receptor-positive breast cancer in postmenopausal women. While these medications have proven to be effective in reducing the recurrence of breast cancer, they are not without their side effects. Here's a look at some of the long-term side effects associated with the use of aromatase inhibitors.

1. Musculoskeletal Symptoms​

Joint and Muscle Pain​

One of the most common side effects experienced by women taking AIs is joint pain or arthralgia. This can range from mild to severe and can impact the quality of life.

Reference:

• "Joint Symptoms are Associated with Aromatase Inhibitors in Women with Early-Stage Breast Cancer" - Journal of Clinical Oncology

2. Cardiovascular Effects​

Increased Risk of Heart Disease​

AIs can elevate the levels of cholesterol and can increase the risk of heart disease, especially in women who already have risk factors for heart issues.

Reference:

• "Cardiovascular Side Effects of Aromatase Inhibitors Versus Tamoxifen" - British Journal of Cancer

3. Bone Health​

Osteoporosis​

Long-term use of AIs can lead to a decrease in bone mineral density, increasing the risk of fractures and osteoporosis.

Reference:

• "Bone Health in Women Taking Aromatase Inhibitors for Early-Stage Breast Cancer" - Journal of Clinical Oncology

4. Gastrointestinal Issues​

Nausea and Diarrhea​

While less common, some women experience gastrointestinal issues like nausea and diarrhea when taking AIs.

Reference:

• "Gastrointestinal Side Effects of Aromatase Inhibitors" - Annals of Oncology

5. Psychological Effects​

Mood Swings and Depression​

Women on AIs may experience mood swings, depression, and other emotional symptoms, although the data is less consistent in this regard.

Reference:

• "Psychological Impact of Aromatase Inhibitors in Breast Cancer Treatment" - Journal of Psychosocial Oncology

6. Sexual Health​

Vaginal Dryness​

AIs can cause vaginal dryness, which can lead to discomfort during sexual activity and a decrease in libido.

Reference:

• "Sexual Dysfunction in Postmenopausal Women Treated with Aromatase Inhibitors" - The Oncologist

Conclusion​

While aromatase inhibitors are a critical component in the treatment of hormone receptor-positive breast cancer, their long-term use is associated with various side effects. It is essential for patients to consult their healthcare provider for a thorough understanding and management of these potential risks.

Where did @genedevine go, he is no longer with the forum?

 

[Deleted member 16042]

I would agree with everything Nelson has said in this post. In fact there was a study not long ago on TRT clinics. It analyzed TRT clinics across the country and the use of aromatase inhibitors. It found that the men with the lowest estrogen had the lowest libido, and the men with the highest estrogen had the highest libido and sexual function.

Citation? Please provide a link to this study. Thanks.

 

[madman]

Citation? Please provide a link to this study. Thanks.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1557988314539000

 

[madman]

Estrogen-It's what makes a real man

https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/study-low-estrogen-can-cause-problems-for-men-47991875700 Study: Low estrogen can cause problems for men (2013) Dr. Joel Finkelstein, an endocrinologist at Harvard Medical School and the lead author of a new study, talks about the effects of declining...

www.excelmale.com

Sexual Dysfunction: GOAT - Dr. Irwin Goldstein

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/228-goat-dr-irwin-goldstein/id1495710329?i=1000627359948 Great interview with one of the all time greats! Fellow Canadian. He is the director of San Diego Sexual Medicine. Dr. Goldstein has had a long career providing medical help to those with sexual...

www.excelmale.com

 

[madman]

Nelson has been preaching the importance of estradiol in men for years!

As I have stated numerous times on the forum we need to tread lightly when trying to manipulate testosterone metabolites estradiol and DHT as they are needed in healthy amounts and are critical to our overall health.

Estradiol and DHT are needed in healthy amounts to experience the full spectrum of testosterone's beneficial effects on mood, energy, libido, erectile function, cardiovascular health, brain, bones, tendons, immune system, body composition, and recovery.

*Natural testosterone is viewed as the best androgen for substitution in hypogonadal men. The reason behind the selection is that testosterone can be converted to DHT and E2, thus developing the full spectrum of testosterone activities in long-term substitution

 

[tmaxey1]

It seems that the argument against controlling estrogen is usually living in the extremes. Saying men need estrogen. Its missing the point of the men who believe in controlling it. Controlling it doesnt mean eliminating it. People like to point to studies that show harm from low estrogen levels. The pro estrogen control side are not pro low estrogen levels. They are anti high estrogen levels.

Are their actually and studies or reasons that an estrogen level of 60 is more beneficial than a level of 30? No one is advocating for estrogen levels of 5. This seems to be the place the anti AI crowd keep framing their argument from.

The posted article about sexual function and estrogen levels actually pointed out that the flaw in the data is typically the men with the higher estrogen levels also had much higher test levels. This doesnt do anything to point to a managed in range estrogen level is harmful. If I don't take an AI my estrogen will run high. 60-70 range. I feel better physically, blood pressure is better, and sexual health is better in the 30 range.

 

[Cataceous]

... People like to point to studies that show harm from low estrogen levels. The pro estrogen control side are not pro low estrogen levels. They are anti high estrogen levels.
...

I have some problems with each camp. I think it's important to consider both the absolute level of estradiol and its fraction relative to the level of testosterone. I believe high or low numbers in either metric can cause issues. The most common situation for guys on TRT is that both estradiol and testosterone are elevated, while their ratio is normal. One camp says it's no problem, neglecting the lack of evidence of long-term safety. Possible side effects, such as excess emotionalism, are supposed to be ignored. Then you have the other camp, which says that you should lower estradiol to "normal" with an AI. This camp neglects the resulting skew in the estradiol/testosterone ratio. A reduction in this ratio has known negative associations, such as a higher incidence of heart disease.

The solution is pretty obvious: lower the TRT dose so that both testosterone and estradiol are physiological. Unfortunately the more-is-better mentality still dominates when it comes to testosterone. This leads guys to try everything else instead.

Is there any place for an AI? Perhaps—in cases where it's clear that there's excessive aromatization that cannot be resolved through weight loss, etc.

 

[Mastodont]

Gonna borrow this thread to ask if anyone has a clue as to why i am aromatizing half the e2 from the same ester and amount of testosterone as before?

Now, i don't know if this is a problem, as i am now in range, before i was over, but might have felt slightly better and libido-wise as well.

Could zinc, magnesium, or foods known to inhibit aromatase really have a serious effect on aromatase? One concern i have is it is likely that DHT is also lower, this also might be one contributing factor to people reporting lower libido on low e2, as i understand aromatase and 5ar go hand in hand to some extent. I will have my DHT checked at some point, i do also have estradiol 1mg pills, so i can make an experiment, will not have to resort to drinking beer in order to raise e2 .

 

[Systemlord]

Gonna borrow this thread to ask if anyone has a clue as to why i am aromatizing half the e2 from the same ester and amount of testosterone as before?

I'm assuming you went from cypionate to enanthate. The only difference is the half-life of the ester.

You went from one ester type to another and noticed a change in estrogen levels, this is the smoking gun.

 

[Mastodont]

I'm assuming you went from cypionate to enanthate. The only difference is the half-life of the ester.

You went from one ester type to another and noticed a change in estrogen levels, this is the smoking gun.

As i said same ester and amount, undecanoate in this case. And the dose being 1000mg at once, testosterone levels are the same in the same timeframe post injection.