Vince
Super Moderator
I recently just picked up some .5cc I haven't tried them yet but hopefully they work nicely.
Anastrazole dosage
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madman
Super Moderator
Although I only inject twice weekly (every 3.5 days) they are a definite improvement over the 1 ml and I think you will be glad you did!
rafapark
Member
Vince just curious as you have mentioned this a couple of times. You mean to say that some people feel better when SHBG and E2 are similar as a number? That would be a good reference to have.
rafapark
Member
I assume it'd be best at trough so it is comparable to when T is tested. I just bought the free test E test and will test in a couple of weeks or so. In talking to my Defy doc however, I asked him and he was puzzled I was going to do that test. He said that there are not known good ranges for that test so it'd be kind of a waste. I will do it anyway just to have another reference and will post to compare vs others.
He said that? I wonder what makes some ranges for tests “good”, and others “bad”. I thought most ranges come from them taking the average highs, and the average lows, from a group consisting of very young men, very old men, and everything in between. Different labs have different ranges, and some are definitely better than others. Maybe that’s what he is referring to. For example, quest’s ranges for E2 are absolutely horrible. It’s not even a range, they just say it should be less than “x”.
Here’s a couple ranges for free E2, maybe they can help interpret your results when you find out your free E2 level.
Quest’s range for free E2 is (<0.45)
Here’s another range I found on the internet, not sure which lab it comes from. I prefer this one though. (0.2-1.5)
Man, makes me sad that TRT is so behind. Makes me sad knowing that testing free E2 is going to eventually be as important as testing free T, but currently nobody does it, and when you bring it up to top doctors at Defy, they question why you’re even getting it done. To me, that’s like a top doctor at Defy questioning why someone would get a free T level over a total T level. I understand that we don’t know the free E2 ranges as much as we know what the free T range should be, and there’s like no studies done on males and free E2, but just bums me out knowing that we are so behind the 8 ball with this whole E2 thing.
DragonBits
Well-Known Member
I think that labs using historical tested testosterone / IGF-1/Dhea / SHBG levels to determine healthy ranges moderately ludicrous. These are all age adjusted hormone ranges. I can see why they do it, they may well be typical values, but does typical mean healthy?
What if they used historical / current blood glucose tests and current weight tests to determine healthy levels? Then healthy would be to be overweight diabetics.
But IME Defy and their doctors don't try and stop you from ordering tests, I pretty much order whatever test I deem important. Defy will require certain tests be done to continue with TRT, which I totally agree with, but ordering more than what they require isn't a problem. It's an expense that may not be a good ROI, but it's your money to spend.
Where you may encounter a problem if based on tests you want to order an estradiol cream / hormone to raise your E2, then the doctor will have to approve that, as it's a prescription med that the doctor has a responsibility to prevent you from harming yourself. I have no idea how those doctors would react to you ordering estrogen products for yourself.
By all means consult with experts for their advice, take it into consideration, but don't expect affirmation of what you think you should do. Just do what you think is right after weighing the positives and negatives. The world isn't going to march to your drumbeat.
Vince Carter
Banned
I trough mine.
DragonBits
Well-Known Member
Recently I was 627 Total T last test, so me personally I am not low T. So not sure who you are posting about.
I would be intellectually curious if Defy would supply estrogen products to men. Taking estrogen in some form would be the only way for me to get E2 above 60. And to get E2 to 60 I would need to get Total T above 1300, which is supraphysiological levels of T.
It's my opinion that high levels of E2 are not protective for men.
For women, it does help their immune systems, but BUT, testosterone is antagonist to immune system. So high test and high E2 isn't likely to help one's immune system.
Of course, men castrated before puberty live longer about 7 years longer than we do, but I missed my chance at that. Zero's out all that nasty T. BTW, that is both true and sarcasm.
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Very interesting that they live 7 years longer. Would of thought they would die much younger than the average male, due to chronic illness being increased secondary to the low sex hormones. But don’t want to derail the thread. Just thought that was an interesting statistic.
DragonBits
Well-Known Member
Here is a link to the article on castration.
https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/2w9...ration-on-the-life-expectancy-of-contemporary
I was posting basically in response to the jay campbell trt youtube video with Rouzier and him making fun of people who would use an ai and also talking about prescribing estrogen.
Vince Carter
Banned
Are you doing ok?
DragonBits
Well-Known Member
Sure
, no problems, thanks for asking, but I am staying away from sharp knives. If there are any problems caused by lower FT/E2, my sleep is a little fragmented, I tend to be sleeping less. Not sure why. But circumstances have prevented me from getting to the gym the last 3 days, maybe that's it.
But I increased my testosterone dose and yesterday did a total T/fT test, I have no idea of how effective two clicks of 200 mg T cream and + DMSO to aid absorption will be. My total T was about 627 ng/dl before that so how much this increased that I will just have to see.
My urologist gave me a letter OKing my continuing TRT, so that is good.
My primary goal right now is losing weight while keeping my strength up and I am trying a running program.
The internet "tells me" that from couch potato to running a marathon should take 20 weeks. If I can jog 5 miles without stopping I will be thrilled. I doubt I could run a mile right now.
So far I am down from 168>147, with my goal being as low as 130, though I am OK with 145. I am thinking hitting 130 and doing weightlifting to get back to 135 or so.
DragonBits
Well-Known Member
Sure
If there are any problems caused by lower FT/E2, my sleep is a little fragmented, I tend to be sleeping less. Not sure why. But circumstances have prevented me from getting to the gym the last 3 days, maybe that's it.
But I increased my testosterone dose and yesterday did a total T/fT test, I have no idea of how effective two clicks of 200 mg T cream and + DMSO to aid absorption will be. My total T was about 627 ng/dl before that so how much this increased that I will just have to see.
My urologist gave me a letter OKing my continuing TRT, so that is good.
My primary goal right now is losing weight while keeping my strength up and I am trying a running program.
The internet "tells me" that from couch potato to running a marathon should take 20 weeks. If I can jog 5 miles without stopping I will be thrilled. I doubt I could run a mile right now.
So far I am down from 168>147, with my goal being as low as 130, though I am OK with 145. I am thinking hitting 130 and doing weightlifting to get back to 135 or so.
Well, that's a big change. Got lab results and 2 clicks of the T Cream with DMSO works well, not sure how it works without DMSO.
But I went from 627 Total T with 7.9 Ft > 1290 (264-916) Total T and 18.7 pg/ml FT (6.6-18.1). BTW, my DHT had moved from 74 > 43 as of the test I did in late dec with ToT T of 627, I didn't retest DHT nor did I retest E2, but no doubt E2 is between 32.5 - 38 pg/ml.
Really interesting that LEF Ultra Prostate Formula lowered FT, E2 and DHT conversions. My FT is still at a lower percentage conversion that it would normally be with a total T of 1290. In the past with a similar TT my FT would have been ~26 pg/ml and not 18.7.
And I can feel the difference, more mental energy, more stamina, more sexual interest. A feeling of being mentally wired. Sleeping better. Though a couple of days ago I thought I was feeling normal but not sleeping well, this is a noticeable difference.
One thing it should illustrate to all, what supplements you take and just as likely what you are eating can make a difference of about 0.4-1.5% in conversion ratios of FT and E2, and DHT from Total T. Moving from a conversion of 1.26% > 2% or 3% is a big change in FT. (The higher 3% FT seems to happen as my Total T gets above 1200 WITHOUT the prostate formula, with the formula I get 1.45%.)
I am going to do another blood test in a week, but nothing to do with hormones, a yearly physical kind of thing. I won't do another hormone test until I have to.
ciao
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