AI and exogenous T level ???

[Speed]

I asked this on ******** group also, but would like to hear more opinions about this.
So, if we're on TRT, will using AI increase serum T levels if estrogen is high and we lower it by AI.
Or, only E2 will go down and serum T will remain the same ?
I never read that someone talked/wrote about this when exogenous T is introduced.
Based on my personal experience, Arimidex only lowered my E2. T level remains the same...

 

[Nelson Vergel]

If you are on TRT an AI has no influence on total testosterone. It decreases estradiol. If you are not on TRT, it increases testosterone and decreases estradiol.

 

[Vince Carter]

I see no reason an AI would increase a serum level of Exo T. Perhaps for someone NOT on TCyp, maybe, but probably more positive impact from dropping E (if testing shows elevated) and thus changing the T:E ratio.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Men using Androgel plus 1 mg per day of anastrozole got fatter and had more ED than men on Androgel


http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1206168

 

[Vince]

I believe Dr. Crisler said he only put one patient on an AI that was not on testosterone. He said nothing about his T going to (exogenous) high levels.

 

[GeauxBears]

If you are on TRT an AI has no influence on total testosterone. It decreases estradiol. If you are not on TRT, it increases testosterone and decreases estradiol.

Nelson, how is it that an AI can decrease E without simultaneously increasing T, even on a male on TRT? An AI should prevent T from being converted to E2, thereby decreasing E2 AND increasing T...right?

 

[CoastWatcher]

Nelson, how is it that an AI can decrease E without simultaneously increasing T, even on a male on TRT? An AI should prevent T from being converted to E2, thereby decreasing E2 AND increasing T...right?

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?7017-AI-effect-on-FT-TT&highlight=James

Dr. Saya dealt with this yesterday. See post number 11.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Only 0.3 percent of T gets converted into Estradiol. Remember that units used to measure T are nanograms (one billionth of a gram) per deciliter while estradiol is picograms (one trillionth of a ram) per milliliter. Blocking T to E2 conversion does little when LH and FSH are suppressed by TRT. But for men not on TRT, using an AI to have less E2 means less suppression of LH and FSH via the axis feed back loop. So, blocking estrogen receptors have a bigger effect on LH and FSH in those men with a resulting increase in T production.

I hope this was clear.

View attachment 2095

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[Dr Justin Saya MD]

As Nelson said, a minor impact due to the relative concentration differences as I also mentioned over in the other thread. Certainly nothing to give any considerable weight in making the decision of appropriateness of AI therapy.

A potentially stronger effect can often be seen through shifts in SHBG from changes in E2 levels...which would then impact free (not total) T levels.

 

[PAUL-E]

As Nelson said, a minor impact due to the relative concentration differences as I also mentioned over in the other thread. Certainly nothing to give any considerable weight in making the decision of appropriateness of AI therapy.

A potentially stronger effect can often be seen through shifts in SHBG from changes in E2 levels...which would then impact free (not total) T levels.

What kind of effect would an AI have on TRT plus HCG have since the HCG stimulates natural production testosterone? from my understanding HCG essentially bypasses the HPTA and stimulates the testis directly unlike clomid that that blocks estrogen to the HTPA tricking it into raising LH. please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[ERO]

The effect is very small - not enough to make any kind dosing changes based upon it.

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

What kind of effect would TRT plus HCG have since the HCG stimulates natural production testosterone? from my understanding HCG essentially bypasses the HPTA and stimulates the testis directly unlike clomid that that blocks estrogen to the HTPA tricking it into raising LH. please correct me if I'm wrong.

The impact of HCG on T levels (when added as an adjunct to a TRT regimen) varies greatly from individual to individual, primarily dependent on your testes' ability to produce endogenous T in response to the HCG stimulation of the leydig cells. In other words, the degree to which you are PRIMARY hypogonadal. I've seen testosterone levels increase several hundred ng/dL after the addition of HCG at various dosages (with no change in T cyp dosage or timing of labs to control other influences), and have also seen T levels not budge at all.

As with basically everything when it comes to hormones...everyone is different (unless you have someone else's cloned pair of testes that is).

 

[PAUL-E]

Thanks for clearing that up, no cloned pair of someone else's testes at the moment