Advise needed: after 6 months enclomiphene 12.5mg ED

[JmarkH]

JmarkH

I see from your signature that yo are taking:
- HCG 250 UI 4 times per week
- Enclomiohene 50 mg 4 times per week

Questions:
- Are you still happy with the results of your protocol?
- If you don't mind, how old are you (simply to see if I can extrapolate your results to me)
- Do you have a recent lab values you could share with me? Total T, Free T, E2, Prolactin, etc.
- How do you break 4 times a week between HCG and Enclomiphene, 4 days in a row? M, W, F, Sunday? Do you take Encomiplene on the same day you take the HCG or alternate?

I'd really appreciate any feedback you can provide.

Thanks,

A.N

Some of these I've already answered. My med schedule is M, W, F, Sat with both meds at the same time.
Still happy, still doing well. Until something changes, this is my long-term protocol.
I'm still getting Enclomiphene from my pharmacy, Empower. We will see how long that goes for. If at some point I can't get Enclomiphene, I'd go back to Clomid.
See labs.

 

[aneuman]

Some of these I've already answered. My med schedule is M, W, F, Sat with both meds at the same time.
Still happy, still doing well. Until something changes, this is my long-term protocol.
I'm still getting Enclomiphene from my pharmacy, Empower. We will see how long that goes for. If at some point I can't get Enclomiphene, I'd go back to Clomid.
See labs.

Thank you so much JmarkH, it seems you're doing really good. My numbers are also good, bur symptoms-wise I'm not seeing much improvement (libido, sensibility, etc). I'll discuss with my doctor to try your protocol and see how it goes. Much appreciated.

A.N

 

[Thegoalie39]

Hi Aneuman. Thanks for sharing your experience with Enclomiphene.

I started with Testosterone (cypionate) and hCT and was happy with it until supply/cost became an issue. As you say the hCG cost seems to keep going up since the recent FDA ruling. hCG standards seem to change and now that Pregnyl has been discontinued, it’s been hard to find a reliable replacement. There are still various reasonably priced hCG suppliers online, but I have no idea how good they are, Eg: LINK.

Because of the hCG supply issues I started to consider Enclomiphene hence my interest in your experience, but now the FDA mess with that!

We are a similar age and I had to adjusts my T’ protocol to 110 mg Testosterone Cypinate per week due to HCT side effects. I currently “Micro Dose” every other day using a 29G x 1/2” IM. This seems to keep me in the mid 800 ng/dl range.

Good luck

I don't think Pregnyl is discontinued. I still get mine at CVS no problem. Just certain sizes were taken away

 

[Forty2]

I don't think Pregnyl is discontinued. I still get mine at CVS no problem. Just certain sizes were taken away

Is the 1500iu Pregnyl available anywhere?

 

[aneuman]

Is the 1500iu Pregnyl available anywhere?

I'm getting Pregnyl from Optum Specialty Pharmacy @ $118 (free shipping). It's a 10,000 units vial. Empower still sells Enclomiphene albeit a bit more expensive.

Tomorrow I'll start a protocol similar to @JmarkH, just 12.5mg of Enclomiphene instead of 50, let's see how it goes. HCG alone never gets my T above 500, while Enclomiphene got it to 1100.

Wish me luck guys

A.N

 

[Forty2]

I'm getting Pregnyl from Optum Specialty Pharmacy @ $118 (free shipping). It's a 10,000 units vial. Empower still sells Enclomiphene albeit a bit more expensive.

Tomorrow I'll start a protocol similar to @JmarkH, just 12.5mg of Enclomiphene instead of 50, let's see how it goes. HCG alone never gets my T above 500, while Enclomiphene got it to 1100.

Wish me luck guys

A.N

I and many other guys have found that hCG begins to lose its potency inside of 2 weeks, even when mixed with bacteriostatic water. That's why I preferred the 1500iu Pregnyl.
Regarding enclomiphene, 6 weeks of 25mg/day got my TT to 820, FSH to 5 and LH only to 4.
Previously, my FSH was 3 and LH was 1.

 

[aneuman]

Guys, as promised, this is an update after 3 months of HCG mono-therapy after trying Enclomiphene for 6 months

Unfortunately, I do not have full labs in every instance, my previous andrologist did not order them, and my new one orders a few, and I don't make enough money to get them regularly even at Discounted Labs (which I've used and will continue to use, some of the labs below are from there), but it is what it is.

Bottom line, it seems that HCG mono therapy with Pregnyl does indeed work to bring up T levels in 60 yo male. The reason I changed from enclomiphene to HCG is multi-variable:

1. It was banned by the FDA, although later I found that Empower continues to sell it, albeit more expensive
2. LH and FSH got up to supra physiological levels, and I'm not sure what the long term side effects would be of such conditions, I did not want t mess with that
3. Symptoms did not improve much in general after 3 months

I wanted to try out HCG again because the results of the first 2 months of use a year ago were fantastic, although they disappear completely by month 3. I was using empower's compounded HCG at the time which was later banned, and that's why I was changed to enclomiphene (does history repeats itself?)

Anyway, below is bm lab history so you can judge by yourself. Today I'm doing well, my symptoms have not improved as much as I had wanted, but maybe the cause is something else and not necessarily low T, or maybe it requires longer term to find a new balance, giving my age, or maybe it is irrational to be expect to feel like a 20 year old again.

Regarding other blood work parameters, CBC is good, HTC is 48.5, Cholesterol a bit high at 235 and glucose at 101. I have lost weight since (from 184 to 175) and have increased exercise, so let's see in 6 months how I'm doing.

To give a little bit of context why first try of HCG ended up with lower T than pre-treatment, when I say that my fountain of youth of the first 3 months had dried up, and after reading all the comments on this forum about how HCG didn't work, I started lowering the dosage in the last 2 months of treatment until eventually I stopped using it, that's the moment I had the labs(12/15/21) I had been 3 weeks without using anything, so it seems by body was returning to its baseline. Unfortunately, I never had labs during the honeymoon period, something I regret, because that would have given me a great indication of the optimal values for me.

In case someone is interested, I'm using Pregnyl 10,000 IU vial from Optim Specialty Pharmacy at $118/mo which I pay out of pocket as my insurance does not cover it. I have played with the protocol a lot (which is not good) but I think I'll settle on 700 IU 3 times a week (Mon, Wed, Fri) for convenience. After mixing, I keep the reconstituted mix in the fridge. I use Insulin syringes Easy Touch 30 gauge and inject it sub-q in the abdomen area between the waist and the hip about 2" away from the belly button.

If there's any change worth sharing, I'll post it here.

Anyway, enjoy.

A.N