8 weeks off TRTk

Hi all. Well 8 weeks off TRT GP asked me ti try to then get bloods done. He wants to see what my bloods are without TRT.. He then wants to refer me to one of the top endocrinologists in the UK.. So 9 weeks have passed and my results are test is 14.4 nmol ref range(6 to 27)
Shgb 64 nmol
Prolactin is 55 ref range (56 to 278)
And LH 13 ref range (1 to 8)
So my LH is high and my free testosterone couldn't any lower.
I have a feeling the gp will ignore the free t result as they didnt test for it and he will say its in ref range. The shbg is using up my free t.

 

[granger]

veggies offer ALOT minerals enzymes probiotics vitamins, but most of all FIBER is a very important thing to expell excess bile salts/waste.. folks dont consider how important enzymes are in digestion or how great alot of them are for health

everyone can tolerate different diets, but of course the people who live the longest eat MOSTLY veggies some meat and less grains then folks in USA do..

if eating JUST fat and meat was THAT lifechanging inuit would be living CRAZY long esp as closely related to asians. We know of blue zones for some time and lifestyle and diet is the secret (coupled with genetics of being small etc).

would be interesting to see bilirubin levels of folks pre and post carnivor.

lol prob first time in modern times people are seeing DRs with scurvy with this carnivor fad.

to me it would seem there is some magic in CHANGE of diet. folks note feeling AWESOME when start eating more veggies and some people feel awesome going to carnivore. both i think grow tired of the diet and looses "magic" over time... seems to me balance and variety is always the answer and what we evolved to do.. sometimes its as simple as a food sensitivity and or blood glucose, so when folks go carnivor they eliminate gluten or cruciferous veggies and guts will feel ALOT better.. however that is a bit of throwing baby out with the bath water..

 

[Systemlord]

veggies offer ALOT minerals enzymes probiotics vitamins

We are omnivores not carnivores, we have flat and pointy teeth, said the vegan as if that does anything to discredit the carnivore diet. Obviously humans can survive off both meat and vegetables.

Plants that are covered in pesticides with plant defense chemicals that don’t allow the majority of their nutrients to be used by your body. Fiber dilutes stomach acid, preventing much of the nutrients from being absorbed.

Our digestive systems are optimized for fatty red meat absorption, it’s true for everyone. You just have to get past your bias.

Before 1986 no one said we had to eat fiber. Humans are eating more vegetables now than at any time in our past.

This diet with a little bit of variety is a fad!

everyone can tolerate different diets

You can survive off of Big Mac, french fries and Diet Coke. We’re not talking about what diets are tolerable, we’re talking about what is the optimal human diet.

would be interesting to see bilirubin levels of folks pre and post carnivor.

High bilirubin levels is usually not a concern and doesn’t require treatment.

 

[Systemlord]

seems to me balance and variety is always

We don’t see anything like this in the Animal Kingdom, as animals have a very, very limited species specific diet. We humans like to think as if we’re special and the rules don’t apply to us.

 

[granger]

you have been sold something my son! without a full understanding.

did you know that it is NOT optimal to instantly absorb vitamins? re fiber. and its perfectly normal not expell waste as your body does not use most of what you consume re shit.

did you know fibre helps your body get rid of bilirubin and other bile waste?

@Systemlord Quote

"We don’t see anything like this in the Animal Kingdom, as animals have a very, very limited species specific diet. We humans like to think as if we’re special and the rules don’t apply to us."

you clearly dont know much about animals.. yes many animals eat 1 thing, but some eat many things.. what do you think black bears eat? fish deer birds, but also bark, grass, leaves roots, and of course fruits like berries... So would you say that bears think they are special?

what about chimpanzees? do you know there diet? fruits veggies bugs and meat.. seems pretty varied no?

are you suggesting the diets that people eat who live the longest is not optimal?

why arent inuit people living till 120yo when have asian genes and eat mostly fat and meat?

also high bilirubin is not healthy and leads to full on juandice, getting close to jaunidice is not good. did you know there isnt really much they CAN do so of course there is no treatment.. get some sun is about all they can do outside of dialysis, so yes of course they dont treat many people as the treatment is EXTREME

REMEMBER essential vitamins are in veggies that are not in meat. RE vitamin C.. yes some carnivor blogs say there is a TONNE of vitamin C in meat but that is not true few mg in some organs which isnt really enough for a growing boy. similarly there is nutrients in meat that arent really available in plants like vitamin B.

anyway, its like reasoning with an evangelical.

 

[feedme]

The lack of even a basic scientific understanding of nutrition in this thread is mind-blowing.

No, vegetables are not bad for you. Yes, you can get things from vegetables that are not in red meat. And sky-high cholesterol is not healthy - recent studies have shown LDL as an independent risk factor for CVD and mortality.

 

[Systemlord]

And sky-high cholesterol is not healthy - recent studies have shown LDL as an independent risk factor for CVD and mortality.

This blanket statement serves no purpose other than to weaken your argument. High cholesterol together with high levels of high density lipoprotein is healthy.

No, vegetables are not bad for you.

If I eat 6 cherry tomatoes, I get an inflammatory response. Plants have defensive chemicals to protect themselves, since they have no other means to defend themselves.

Liam Hemsworth ended up in the ER with oxalate poisoning from eating spinach! He almost died!! You want kidney stones, worsening arthritis, eat your vegetables.

 

[feedme]

This blanket statement serves no purpose other than to weaken your argument. High cholesterol together with high levels of high density lipoprotein is healthy.

If I eat 6 cherry tomatoes, I get an inflammatory response. Plants have defensive chemicals to protect themselves, since they have no other means to defend themselves.

Liam Hemsworth ended up in the ER with oxalate poisoning from eating spinach! He almost died!! You want kidney stones, worsening arthritis, eat your vegetables.

Anecdotes are irrelevant here. Extensive research, including high-quality meta-analysis, has demonstrated increased hazard ratios at higher LDL levels.

Long-Term Association of Low-Density Lipoprotein Cholesterol With Cardiovascular Mortality in Individuals at Low 10-Year Risk of Atherosclerotic Cardiovascular Disease - PubMed

In a low 10-year risk cohort with long-term follow-up, LDL-C and non-HDL-C ≥160 mg/dL were independently associated with a 50% to 80% increased relative risk of CVD mortality. These findings may have implications for future cholesterol treatment paradigms.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Populations with low atherosclerotic CVD risk - higher LDL-C levels independently associated with increased CVD mortality

In a low 10-year risk cohort with long-term follow-up, LDL-C and non-HDL-C ≥160 mg/dL were independently associated with a 50% to 80% increased relative risk of CVD mortality.

Association of low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels with the risk of mortality and cardiovascular events: A meta-analysis of cohort studies with 1,232,694 participants - PubMed

Our results found LDL-C ≥ 130 mg/dL was associated with the higher risk of all-cause mortality and CVD risk, indicating that adults with high LDL-C should take interventions to regulate the LDL-C level lower than 130 mg/dL.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Association of low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels with the risk of mortality and cardiovascular events: A meta-analysis of cohort studies with 1,232,694 participants:

Our results found LDL-C ≥ 130 mg/dL was associated with the higher risk of all-cause mortality and CVD risk, indicating that adults with high LDL-C should take interventions to regulate the LDL-C level lower than 130 mg/dL.

https://bpspubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/bcp.14811

Low-density lipoprotein cholesterol and lifespan: A Mendelian randomization study

This genetic evidence supports that higher LDL-c levels reduce lifespan and longevity.

 

[Systemlord]

Anecdotes are irrelevant here. Extensive research, including high-quality meta-analysis, has demonstrated increased hazard ratios at higher LDL levels.

Long-Term Association of Low-Density Lipoprotein Cholesterol With Cardiovascular Mortality in Individuals at Low 10-Year Risk of Atherosclerotic Cardiovascular Disease - PubMed

In a low 10-year risk cohort with long-term follow-up, LDL-C and non-HDL-C ≥160 mg/dL were independently associated with a 50% to 80% increased relative risk of CVD mortality. These findings may have implications for future cholesterol treatment paradigms.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Populations with low atherosclerotic CVD risk - higher LDL-C levels independently associated with increased CVD mortality

In a low 10-year risk cohort with long-term follow-up, LDL-C and non-HDL-C ≥160 mg/dL were independently associated with a 50% to 80% increased relative risk of CVD mortality.

Association of low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels with the risk of mortality and cardiovascular events: A meta-analysis of cohort studies with 1,232,694 participants - PubMed

Our results found LDL-C ≥ 130 mg/dL was associated with the higher risk of all-cause mortality and CVD risk, indicating that adults with high LDL-C should take interventions to regulate the LDL-C level lower than 130 mg/dL.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Association of low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels with the risk of mortality and cardiovascular events: A meta-analysis of cohort studies with 1,232,694 participants:

Our results found LDL-C ≥ 130 mg/dL was associated with the higher risk of all-cause mortality and CVD risk, indicating that adults with high LDL-C should take interventions to regulate the LDL-C level lower than 130 mg/dL.

https://bpspubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/bcp.14811

Low-density lipoprotein cholesterol and lifespan: A Mendelian randomization study

This genetic evidence supports that higher LDL-c levels reduce lifespan and longevity.

Just because you flash a study in front of me doesn't mean the study isn't flawed! It's difficult for me to take most studies seriously, because the majority of them are simply untrue, propaganda for people with something to gain from misinformation.

The Diabetes Association Of America and USDA are all bought and paid for by the big food and drug companies.

Marcia Angell, editor of the New England Journal of medicine for 20 years,

Similar conflict of interests and bias exist in virtually every field of medicine, particularly those that rely heavily on drugs and devices. It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians, or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades, as an editor of the New England of Journal of medicine.

Richard Horton, editor of the Lancet wrote, that the case against science is straightforward, much of the scientific literature, perhaps half, may simply be untrue. Afflicted by studies with small sample sizes, tiny effects, invalid exploratory analysis, and fragment, conflict of interests, together with an obsession for pursuing fashionable trends of dubious importance, science has taken a turn towards darkness.

Big Pharma pays top journal, editors .

 

[feedme]

It's difficult for me to take most studies seriously, because the majority of them are simply untrue, propaganda for people with something to gain from misinformation.

The Diabetes Association Of America and USDA are all bought and paid for by the big food and drug companies.

Well, that is very convenient, considering that these studies disagree with your position.

With friends involved in clinical research that has and will save many lives, I find this "blame big pharma" stance for everything a little bizarre. Studies are peer-reviewed for a reason, this is why we don't cite preprints.

So, who or what do you take seriously? Youtubers? Anecdotes?

 

[Systemlord]

Well, that is very convenient, considering that these studies disagree with your position.

With friends involved in clinical research that has and will save many lives, I find this "blame big pharma" stance for everything a little bizarre. Studies are peer-reviewed for a reason, this is why we don't cite preprints.

So, who or what do you take seriously? Youtubers? Anecdotes?

I can produce studies that disagree with your studies. I'll take real world antidotal experiences over any study.

There was a study of 2400 people for 6 months and showed something approximately 90% reduction in all disease symptoms.

Robert Peterson lost 52 pounds (212->165 lbs) in seven months, with no change in exercise routine, at 62 he has no problem putting on muscle. He had a host of inflammatory conditions, some of which were quite serious, including peripheral uveitis, which sometimes blind people in my right eye, and it disappeared, completely along with psoriasis, gum disease and gastric reflux disorder.

His daughter has the same experience with her auto immune diseases.

 

[granger]

dont botter arguing with evangelical.. he says dont make blanketed statements then goes into stating "well oxalates!" lol. MANY MANY MANY plant defences we use for health..infact FIBRE yes fibres is a defence aswell. lycopene all the ANTIOXIDANTS are infact pant defences aswell. never mind but he is to far gone to understand that.

also says 'don't trust bunk studies', then gives SUPER bad ones.. again, some people have food allergies or sensitivities some people handle varying levels of blood markers. some people have strokes with low blood pressure some people with high..

peterson was coming off long time benzo use and then withdrawal so ALOT of things happening at once for him.. it does take a long tme to feel better they say after benzos so correlates pretty well. and yes if you have a few sensitivities it is easier just to say "just eat meat" or "dont eat anything from a box". and even then he KNOWs people talk about his diet, just how joe rogan talks about carnivore etc (but even he doesnt do it and feels better eating other things and CUPS of supplements to get his nutrient requirements lol).

somehow people forget about atkins, didnt he die from heart attack? 50% blocked arteries... hmmm 70yo isnt very old esp for a "health conscious person"...

too much these days people throw baby out with bath water.. like a couple studies saying well some cholesterol isnt as bad as we thought and some better markers(that are correlated), then people EAT ONLY THAT. i mean freaken DOGS(yes even wild ones) eat grass and berries lol amazing the instinct they have to help their stomachs and get some enzymes and has nothing to do with them being hungry.

 

[granger]

So, who or what do you take seriously? Youtubers? Anecdotes?

lol he answered that but just so your aware Peterson is very much internet personality on youtube etc.

 

[granger]

ill just leave this here... Common Diet May Be Linked to Rising Cancer Rates in Young People
"A high intake of dietary fiber is associated with a reduced risk of several types of cancer, including esophageal, gastric, colon, rectal, colorectal adenoma, breast, endometrial, ovarian, renal cell, prostate, and pancreatic cancers,” a 2023 study concluded." SOO basically all the common and worse ones, and I know plenty of old guys who got those cancers who ate mostly meat and low fibre diets. anecdotes of course but seems to be true.

you have to understand what some scientists do, some are contrarian just because it helpf further understanding.. people hold onto those idea ie atkins (that died of heart attack remember in his 70s so pretty young for 2000s), however its not the best science or most correct or most verified...

people who are married to there ideas and evangelical typically have it wrong, be it pro vegan or pro meat... the answer is ALWAYS in the middle.

 

[sammmy]

You are all wasting time arguing about observational studies. You must be seriously out of your mind to think that association with a single factor, neglecting gazillions of others, proves causation. This is in every book of statistics, yet "researchers" pretend it doesn't exist.

One person may have high LDL because they eat tons of sugar. Another may have high LDL because they eat tons of meat. It is not at all sure that they will have the same outcome because "medical science" decided that it boils down to LDL by violating every single rule in Statistics 101.

That's why after decades of such questionable "peer-reviewed research" that flips opinions every year, the only thing we know about healthy living is DON'T EAT PROCESSED FOOD and EXERCISE.

 

[granger]

You are all wasting time arguing about observational studies. You must be seriously out of your mind to think that association with a single factor, neglecting gazillions of others, proves causation. This is in every book of statistics, yet "researchers" pretend it doesn't exist.

One person may have high LDL because they eat tons of sugar. Another may have high LDL because they eat tons of meat. It is not at all sure that they will have the same outcome because "medical science" decided that it boils down to LDL by violating every single rule in Statistics 101.

That's why after decades of such questionable "peer-reviewed research" that flips opinions every year, the only thing we know about healthy living is DON'T EAT PROCESSED FOOD and EXERCISE.

right and to my point this is 1 being evangelical and 2 thinking "look cholesterol isnt as bad as they thought, therefore eat ONLY MEAT" is a huge jump in logic. its such a silly argument that folks think we evolved to eat only meat, we didnt, physical evidence in earliest man and pre human shows that wasnt the case, our closest relatives in animal kingdom with even SHARPER LARGER teeth are omnivores. And yes i agree MANY factors not just red meat consumption.

SO funny the idea of how chinese diet is healthier as they live longer and in hong kong they eat more meat per capita (as buddies blog article stated), yet forgets that for the vast majority of the chineses who live the longest they eat far less red meat.. infact, because china has done a great job sooo quickly building there middle class there is a HUGE NEW demand for red and other meats as they want to live like folks in USA. So they havent been eating most meat per capita for 90 years where we would see folks living the longest, its basically JUST started in the 2000s lol... Of course why they are buying up farms in countries and last 20 years HUGE exports from brazil etc to china to keep up with the NEW middle class demand for beef. also pork from USA is being bought up by china.

eating a tonne of meat OR sugar are both bad of course sugar is worse. AGAIN the people who live the longest and healthiest have lower LDL.. apob they say is a better marker but of course very much correlated to cholesterol levels.. ie cant throw baby out with bath water. ALWAYS exception to the rule, but its like saying diabetes does not age or cause you to die sooner when treated its just lifestyle.. well, sure, but 9.8/10 times its true.

but yes agree alot of sugar with alot of meat is prob the worst for your health.

also i know many people dont understand science as perhaps were not made familiar during school age esp in USA. It is important to realize that yes science changes, that is not a crazy idea it will forever change and all the things we thought were ok turn out perhaps not to be. This is AGAIN, why moderation, should be everyones mantra as no matter what you THINK is the REAL science chances are it prob will change or your being lied to ie like carnivor diet OR like vegan billionaires making propaganda films about meat. I mean in the future i would suspect there will be a "seasonal" diet that essentially you cycle foods in order to get BEST of every diet lol... low sugar highfat protein winters higher sugar lower protein summers. for now i think since china bought up beef production I wouldnt put it past them to bring propaganda to increase demand and then of course birdflu will wipe out heards of cattle to cause MASSIVE chaos in the west.

one thing we know forsure is the new GOLD AND OIL is food and water, and this isnt a conspiracy. pretty interesting doc The Grab - Wikipedia

oh and lets not forget, if you eat meat that came from an animal that was eating HIGH SUGAR diet, you get ALOT of the bad things from a high sugar diet aswell. so even more to complicate the issue of saying EAT 90% red meat.. well if getting third world grass fed meat OR uber high end shit in america that is different than corn finished ribeyes daily.