8 Months on Daily Scrotal T Cream, E2 Still High

[RickD]

Wow, that is some reaction to HCG. I have read on another forum guys who do 50IU a day and got everything working again(got wife pregnant after years of AAS) but it took 8 months. I am more of the school of being consistant on a low dose and wait & see. (be the tortoise not the hare) Large pulses like twice a week 350-500IU was too much for me too. Now on just 100-150IU a day and I feel great, meaning I do not have the E2 sides. I do not care about the testicle esthetics as I never had huge balls anyways but thats maybe optics in comparison to the shaft.....lol...just kidding.

The main reason why I was/am interrested in the DHT derivatives is the minor E2 control they offer. So depending on my T dose I take 12.5-25mg of Proviron or add 10-20mg Masteron to my injections....no problems with E2 whatsoever. I understand it depends where you are to be able to legally do that. I never used an AI so I can not give you any advice on that.

When you say 10-20mg Masteron is that per day?

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

When you say 10-20mg Masteron is that per day?

yes

 

[M.J]

I have done sustanon it was amazing ride with multiple honeymoons however things stabilized after 2/3 month. I should have stayed longer but urgent plans to get the wife pregnant so restarting and doing the same dose again. I was thinking about trying the cream. How Long did your morning wood and honey moon lasted there ? Did things stabilized quickly ?

also the easy solution for your problem is microdose arimidix, I mix it with vodka and take very small dose one time the next day after my injection, works great. You don’t need much maybe even once every two weeks maybe even a month not sure.

 

[Cataceous]

...
The mixing of esters isn't recommended, no need to over-complicate your protocol, you can make it work on just one ester and can vary the dosage from time to time to create variability in hormone levels every other week it if feel better doing it.

It's debatable whether there are benefits to creating a diurnal rhythm in serum testosterone. My results make me think there are some, but they are subtle. What's less debatable is the likelihood of needing more than one testosterone ester when using injections to go this route. Enough guys have reported results with daily propionate injections to suggest that using propionate alone is likely to cause supraphysiological variations in daily serum testosterone, on the order of +/-50% about the average. Physiological rhythms peak out at more like +/-25% about the average. The implication is that unless you have ready access to an esoteric intermediate ester such as phenylpropionate, you need to use a longer ester to create a base to which to add some daily propionate.

In my opinion, Sustanon is too weighted towards longer esters to be useful in creating diurnal variations; injecting daily will at best replicate the attenuated serum variations seen in older men.

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

It's debatable whether there are benefits to creating a diurnal rhythm in serum testosterone. My results make me think there are some, but they are subtle. What's less debatable is the likelihood of needing more than one testosterone ester when using injections to go this route. Enough guys have reported results with daily propionate injections to suggest that using propionate alone is likely to cause supraphysiological variations in daily serum testosterone, on the order of +/-50% about the average. Physiological rhythms peak out at more like +/-25% about the average. The implication is that unless you have ready access to an esoteric intermediate ester such as phenylpropionate, you need to use a longer ester to create a base to which to add some daily propionate.

In my opinion, Sustanon is too weighted towards longer esters to be useful in creating diurnal variations; injecting daily will at best replicate the attenuated serum variations seen in older men.

After doing (started 28/06/19) 5 half-life cycles Test Cyp only , I felt very flat, emotional but mainly I felt physically as much as psychologically boring....like a drone. A thought came to me as in, women have a cycle why not men, how come everything in the world/nature/Universe revolves in cycles but my testosterone, the main male driver is a steady flow. So I checked the research and found the attached papers. Based on these I made the attached excel sheet and have since been on this and I feel great from day one, the fluctuations are minute but the T suspension/base create a diurnal variation and the whole stack together with the longer esters creates my seasonal variation.
Maybe its all in my mind and I created a nice selffullfilling placebo effect but why not as I do ED SQ injections daily, its just a couple of minutes draw/inject and I love it.....I look forward to the slow down dosing as much to the up, its just change and it is what this mind/body needs..
I cannot show any bloodwork, yet. We have been travelling so much that I have not been able to check anything. I am on TRT for how it makes me feel and I do have a slight fear that numbers will start messing with me.

I have not coded the excelsheet that the date and numbers revolve continiously.

 

[Cataceous]

... Based on these I made the attached excel sheet and have since been on this and I feel great from day one, the fluctuations are minute but the T suspension/base create a diurnal variation and the whole stack together with the longer esters creates my seasonal variation.
...

It's the first time I've heard of including seasonal variations. Interesting.

My guess is that your daily fluctuations are actually quite large. Testosterone suspension isn't well characterized, but it could be up and down in a few hours, meaning you're getting a pretty large spike there. That's in addition to the peak from propionate, which likely occurs 2-4 hours after each injection.

I have a similar spreadsheet, with nearly the same esters. It includes a field to estimate variability about the mean. With your numbers it's giving an overall variability comparable to that of propionate alone. But this method probably underweights the variability of pure testosterone, so my guess is that the diurnal variability of your protocol is effectively greater than propionate alone.

Do you have any thoughts on how test base or suspension compare to Natesto, the new nasal gel? Short-acting testosterone is interesting because it may not result in much HPTA suppression.

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

It's the first time I've heard of including seasonal variations. Interesting.

My guess is that your daily fluctuations are actually quite large. Testosterone suspension isn't well characterized, but it could be up and down in a few hours, meaning you're getting a pretty large spike there. That's in addition to the peak from propionate, which likely occurs 2-4 hours after each injection.

I have a similar spreadsheet, with nearly the same esters. It includes a field to estimate variability about the mean. With your numbers it's giving an overall variability comparable to that of propionate alone. But this method probably underweights the variability of pure testosterone, so my guess is that the diurnal variability of your protocol is effectively greater than propionate alone.

Do you have any thoughts on how test base or suspension compare to Natesto, the new nasal gel? Short-acting testosterone is interesting because it may not result in much HPTA suppression.

I added the suspension as I wanted peak T asap after injection(7:00), I used to workout first thing in the morning and only esterified T would leave me pretty bushed after. The suspension works within 30 minutes after SQ injection and keep levels up at least until the T prop starts to kick in 6-8 hours later. then 12-14 hrs after injection the T Cyp starts to peak. For this body ofc. In this way I slowly slide down but have pick up peaks throughout the day. Base serum levels of the esterified T have reached their peaks ofc.

I also had an interrest in Natesto to recreate the morning diurnal peak but the way of administration is what I have my doubts about, adding the Tsus or base to my ED SQ is much more convenient/controllable.
Testing would be subjective experience only, as the Tsusp/base half-life is short the next day could be fine to test Natesto but there is some research on Tsusp that another much higher peak happens a week after administration.
As the Tcream(200mg/ml)I cannot source the Natesto where I am so I am not able to test these as additional therapeutic tools.

If anybody want to use my Excelsheet I want to remind you that I did not code in to add the top values at the bottom to make a perpetual calendar, so you need to do this manually, cp all the values 1 row up every day.

 

[M.J]

It's debatable whether there are benefits to creating a diurnal rhythm in serum testosterone. My results make me think there are some, but they are subtle. What's less debatable is the likelihood of needing more than one testosterone ester when using injections to go this route. Enough guys have reported results with daily propionate injections to suggest that using propionate alone is likely to cause supraphysiological variations in daily serum testosterone, on the order of +/-50% about the average. Physiological rhythms peak out at more like +/-25% about the average. The implication is that unless you have ready access to an esoteric intermediate ester such as phenylpropionate, you need to use a longer ester to create a base to which to add some daily propionate.

In my opinion, Sustanon is too weighted towards longer esters to be useful in creating diurnal variations; injecting daily will at best replicate the attenuated serum variations seen in older men.

I see your point, I can say this from my experiment. I had at least 2 honeymoons I am 100% sure of this. At the beginning (next day lasted two weeks) and another maybe 10 days near the 40 day. But with time things went a bit more stabile (libido wise and morning wood). I am repeating it in 20 days from now. Need to make my wife pregnant the. I will try other stuff.

the secret could be in what you mentioned maybe having a mix toward a shorter easters with a long one (however I think hcg can give base testosterone if u can make enough, maybe with cream )