6 months into TRT - minimal effects - no libido - thinking of stopping?

[Russo]

Things to consider:
- potential history of SSRI use; 5ARi use (finasteride)
- progesterone, dhea, pregnenolone supplementation
- gut health (bowel movement frequency, stool appearance)
- overall metabolic, mitochondrial health, immune system function (notice any infections anywhere on the body?)
- "standard" supplements: magnesium, zinc, vit d/k2 ...

To name a few. Anything you havent really put much thought into?

I am searching still about it. It's probably the tanked progesterone in this options.

 

[Fernando Almaguer]

I am searching still about it. It's probably the tanked progesterone in this options.

is this Russo lifts?

 

[brookseth]

Things to consider:
- potential history of SSRI use; 5ARi use (finasteride)
- progesterone, dhea, pregnenolone supplementation
- gut health (bowel movement frequency, stool appearance)
- overall metabolic, mitochondrial health, immune system function (notice any infections anywhere on the body?)
- "standard" supplements: magnesium, zinc, vit d/k2 ...

To name a few. Anything you havent really put much thought into?

For me:
No SSRI use
No supplementation for any of those 3
But health is pretty good spare some acid reflux. Take my probiotics regularly too.
No known infections.
Standard supplements/vits taken too.

It seems like making the change in protocol to drop the HCG gave me back a libido but now it’s already fading away. So it almost appears that either 1. I was taking too much HCG and need a sweet spot that I had hit as it was being eliminated from my body. Or 2. My libido just responds to protocol change in general.

 

[zancek0]

For me:
No SSRI use
No supplementation for any of those 3
But health is pretty good spare some acid reflux. Take my probiotics regularly too.
No known infections.
Standard supplements/vits taken too.

It seems like making the change in protocol to drop the HCG gave me back a libido but now it’s already fading away. So it almost appears that either 1. I was taking too much HCG and need a sweet spot that I had hit as it was being eliminated from my body. Or 2. My libido just responds to protocol change in general.

Can you upload the latest blood work? If it is possible just add images of all the values.
Some people react quite negatively to the slightest raises in prolactin in terms of libido and drive. Hcg increases it. It did mine quite significantly. I wonder where your progesterone levels sit at.
Maybe different pin frequency or different test ester might suit you better as well. It takes a shitload of experimenting to get "dialed in" for some people (me included).

 

[Gladiator]

D every day, 10k IU

Vitamin D toxicity if a thing to think about. Unless you are getting regular blood tests on this amount you could be making yourself sick.

 

[brookseth]

Can you upload the latest blood work? If it is possible just add images of all the values.
Some people react quite negatively to the slightest raises in prolactin in terms of libido and drive. Hcg increases it. It did mine quite significantly. I wonder where your progesterone levels sit at.
Maybe different pin frequency or different test ester might suit you better as well. It takes a shitload of experimenting to get "dialed in" for some people (me included).

Attached. Prolactin actually looks fine. Progesterone though I have no idea, I don't think that was ever tested.

 

[zancek0]

Attached. Prolactin actually looks fine. Progesterone though I have no idea, I don't think that was ever tested.

Get yourself some iron bisglycinate.
It's quite possible that your issues are entirely due to very low ferritin. It needs to be above 100. Cholesterol is an issue as well but ferritin seems to be a bigger problem.

 

[brookseth]

Get yourself some iron bisglycinate.
It's quite possible that your issues are entirely due to very low ferritin. It needs to be above 100. Cholesterol is an issue as well but ferritin seems to be a bigger problem.

Did one 4 day set of this.
I’m currently at 30 now for ferritin.
Going to do another starting tomorrow.

Raising ferritin FAST (a how-to, not a question)

Hi all, I started TRT in 2001 and have been giving blood over the years and have always had issues with recovering my ferritin. Long story short, I got tired of waiting for others to do the research, so I did it myself, created a protocol, hired a hematologist in May 2021 who thought it could...

www.excelmale.com

 

[brookseth]

My doctor (one of the ones who I’d say is better than the others) also mentioned that my T4 while not low could just be low for me and leading to some of this constant fatigue as well (fatigue was before the TRT and before low ferritin).
Said we could try taking some of that too for a few weeks just to test if there is any noticeable changes.
The fatigue has been a bad issue for years now and was one of the main reasons I started TRT after a few years of not finding a way back from the fatigue.

 

[brookseth]

Also quick update:
After discontinuing the HCG I had a great boost in libido - but for two weeks. Now it is once again gone.
Why would this be?

 

[DorianGray]

Also quick update:
After discontinuing the HCG I had a great boost in libido - but for two weeks. Now it is once again gone.
Why would this be?

I'm only surmising based on my own experiences being on and off TRT and HCG a few times. I got on TRT the first time because I thought it would boost libido and EQ but it did not. Getting off of it brought libido back for a couple weeks then it diminished again. Lastly, I got off T but had HCG left so I just kept using it resulting in a slight sex drive increase. Then, ran out of that and did nothing for a few months, things leveled out again. I had some T cream left over so, I decided to give that a try applying to testicles-huge boost in libido within hours, so, I kept using that for a few weeks libido slowly diminished but was better than before. I have no scientific explanation other than subjective that the body goes into some kind of wild mode when any change to metabolism is made. This effect would probably vary with the individual.

 

[Systemlord]

Also quick update:
After discontinuing the HCG I had a great boost in libido - but for two weeks. Now it is once again gone.
Why would this be?

Your body can’t reach homeostasis. You’ll see guys that have problems like this litter throughout the forum.

Your body wants a variation in hormones throughout the day, every day.

 

[brookseth]

Your body can’t reach homeostasis. You’ll see guys that have problems like this litter throughout the forum.

Your body wants a variation in hormones throughout the day, every day.

So what is the golden ticket to this? - if anyones figured it out yet

 

[Systemlord]

So what is the golden ticket to this? - if anyones figured it out yet

Who says there is a golden ticket to fix this? TRT doesn’t work for everyone. I have said it before, these cypionate esters create static hormones that don’t decline as quickly or regularly as natural testosterone production.

Shorter half-life esters may be better for these men that only have sexual function and strong libido’s after dosing changes. Some men on cycles report diminished sexual function and lower libido with very high T levels.

If one is sensitive enough, these constantly elevated hormones may present with symptoms similar to men on cycles.

Maybe all you need is to get your hormone levels swinging with large peaks and valleys. Maybe even change your dose every time you inject by a few milligrams.

 

[Hai Bodong]

Who says there is a golden ticket to fix this? TRT doesn’t work for everyone. I have said it before, these cypionate esters create static hormones that don’t decline as quickly or regularly as natural testosterone production.

Shorter half-life esters may be better for these men that only have sexual function and strong libido’s after dosing changes. Some men on cycles report diminished sexual function and lower libido with very high T levels.

If one is sensitive enough, these constantly elevated hormones may present with symptoms similar to men on cycles.

Maybe all you need is to get your hormone levels swinging with large peaks and valleys. Maybe even change your dose every time you inject by a few milligrams.

How does hormone variation produce libido? I got very surprised with this comment. I have seen people say that when starting and when stopping hcg they had use libido, but never though it was the variation rather some kind of golden balance reached temporarily.

 

[sammmy]

@brookseth

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[Ravenouz]

I feel your pain.... I too had extreme fatigue and no motivation. I continued going to the gym but my performance sucked and to please my lady I was injecting trimix to get hard and would pump her through multiple orgasms while I did not pop. I went to bed early did not rest well and woke up at 4am. Napped 2 times a day, even sitting up at my desk. My doctor recommended me for a sleep study which I blew off, but after 6 months finally succumbed and did it. Man my life is back, yes I sleep now with a hose to my nose but my body is getting the oxygen needed to recover and I can say I am back 100%. You may be skeptical but go to your doctor and suggest it, it may bring you back ... good luck

Whats your exact regime and how long did it take for you to get "back"

 

[aneuman]

How does hormone variation produce libido? I got very surprised with this comment. I have seen people say that when starting and when stopping hcg they had use libido, but never though it was the variation rather some kind of golden balance reached temporarily.

I tend to agree. I had the famous honeymoon when I first started hCG at 2000 IU a week. lasted the typical 2 weeks, never to come back again.

Just like you, I think the initial hCG dose cause some changes in hormones and neurotransmitters which reached the golden ratio, ergo libido, wellbeing, etc. As soon as the body starting fighting back to achieve homeostasis, the feeling was gone. In retrospect, I should have run to Quest the moment I felt like 20 years old and have my markers checked. Not a guarantee for success, but at least I'd have a better reference.

My hypothesis is that it's not that levels (of anything) have fallen, or risen, that causes most of the reasons people are in this forum, but that for some unknown reason, the body has changed the set point, and it's regulating it to a level that is not what we want, so in essence, doesn't really matter much what we do, the body will fight back and will try to maintain the new balance it decided to keep. And who knows, maybe there's a reason for it, and maybe it is, ironically, a good reason.

I never subscribed to the theory that it's the change, the flux, that causes the desired effect or that the body "wants variation throughout the day", I think it's just the other way around, there's variation because the body is trying to keep homeostasis and things are changing. Just like the A/C. It doesn't "want to work more during summer" it just detects that it's hotter and has to work more.

 

[Hai Bodong]

I tend to agree. I had the famous honeymoon when I first started hCG at 2000 IU a week. lasted the typical 2 weeks, never to come back again.

Just like you, I think the initial hCG dose cause some changes in hormones and neurotransmitters which reached the golden ratio, ergo libido, wellbeing, etc. As soon as the body starting fighting back to achieve homeostasis, the feeling was gone. In retrospect, I should have run to Quest the moment I felt like 20 years old and have my markers checked. Not a guarantee for success, but at least I'd have a better reference.

My hypothesis is that it's not that levels (of anything) have fallen, or risen, that causes most of the reasons people are in this forum, but that for some unknown reason, the body has changed the set point, and it's regulating it to a level that is not what we want, so in essence, doesn't really matter much what we do, the body will fight back and will try to maintain the new balance it decided to keep. And who knows, maybe there's a reason for it, and maybe it is, ironically, a good reason.

I never subscribed to the theory that it's the change, the flux, that causes the desired effect or that the body "wants variation throughout the day", I think it's just the other way around, there's variation because the body is trying to keep homeostasis and things are changing. Just like the A/C. It doesn't "want to work more during summer" it just detects that it's hotter and has to work more.

The body decides a new homeostasis and the physical manifestation is libido ed issues etc.

So if you have the numbers from when you felt like a rockstar in your 20s and manage to replicate them artificially, would you be close to that feeling wise?

 

[aneuman]

So if you have the numbers from when you felt like a rockstar in your 20s and manage to replicate them artificially, would you be close to that feeling wise?

I don't know. It may look like that at first however, there's a few problems:

1. Most people do not go to the doctor to get comprehensive hormonal panel done when they are in their 20s and feeling like rock stars, so we don't know what the set point was.
2. Even if we did, we probably measured the things that could be measured at the time we were 20s, with the technology of the time, and the knowledge of the time.
3. Even if we had the snapshot values, we don't know what relationships to look at. Hormones are not like a multi band equalizer, you cannot simply raise one and leave the others where they are. Usually once you change one, a cascade of changes is triggered.

We really don't know what variables, and which levels those variables need to have to feel like a rockstar. Does HDL, LDL play a role? we don't know. How about dopamine, norepinephrine, choline, serotonin? Or the ratio between norepinephrine and free testosterone? Or 3 times serotonin/choline compared to dopamine*vitamin D? How about even estradiol? Up until very recently, and still some body building communities and even some doctors still say that Estradiol is a "female hormone". Some want to keep it as low as possible, yet some researchers have found that libido decreases with estradiol less than 50 pg/mL. The reality is, with all our technology in the 21st century, we are still in the dark when it comes to this topic.

The thing is that we don't know what we don't know. Every day we'll discover more, and perhaps we'll get some day closer to the truth and what it means not just to live forever, but to live forever feeling as good as when we were in our 20s and 30s. And then a new question arises, what do we do with so many people?

I'm fortunate that I had fantastic 20s and 30s and even 40s, from every aspect of life. Some of my issues started in my 50s and even so, they are still relatively minor, manageable and I can still e enjoy life. It's my mind that likes yo achieve perfection, and ... here I am...