5 Weeks TRT - symptoms and questions

[Systemlord]

Your Free T is calculated trough at 26.8 ng/dL, likely putting your peak Free T somewhere around 30-35 ng/dL.

Your CBC is normal. As of right now you may not even have reached a steady state, let alone allowing your body enough time to adapt to the new protocol, which can take 8-12 weeks in some cases.

 

[madman]

Latest labs. I take my shot once a week. Labs were done the same day as my weekly shot, but I waited until after blood was taken before doing my injection.

Yes, so this would be the true trough.

As you can see your FT was done using the calculated linear law-of-mass action Vermeulen.

Plug in your trough TT 979 ng/dL, SHBG 25.7 nmol/L, and Albumin 5.0 g/dL then your trough FT 23.9 ng/dL would be high.

Again you are hitting a very high trough TT almost 1000 ng/dL with normalish SHBG 25.7 nmol/L which has your trough FT high.

These are your levels 7 days post-injection which means that your peak TT/FT is going to be absurdly high.

Put money on it your peak TT is easily over 1500 ng/dL and more importantly, your peak FT will be absurdly high as in 40+ ng/dL.

Most healthy young males would be peaking around 13-15 ng/dL (cFTV).

You were overmedicated from the get-go!

When using TC/TE it will take 4-6 weeks to reach steady-state due to the half-life of the ester.

Blood work should be done at the 6-week mark.

Even though your hemoglobin and hematocrit are in range (top-end) this is misleading as such blood markers will increase within the first month of starting therapy and can take anywhere from 6-9 months and in some cases up to a year to reach peak levels.

Where they sit now is not where they will end up 6-9 months from now so they will be higher down the road if you stay on that dose of T as it is a given they will be driven up further.

Keep in mind that there is going to be a huge difference in peak--->trough injecting once weekly vs daily or EOD.

Again you are hitting a very high trough TT of almost 1000 ng/dL and more importantly a high trough FT.

These are your T levels 7 days post-injection!

 

[madman]

Your Free T is calculated trough at 26.8 ng/dL, likely putting your peak Free T somewhere around 30-35 ng/dL.

Your CBC is normal. As of right now you may not even have reached a steady state, let alone allowing your body enough time to adapt to the new protocol, which can take 8-12 weeks in some cases.

Going to be much higher!

He was overmedicated from the get-go!

 

[madman]

Latest labs. I take my shot once a week. Labs were done the same day as my weekly shot, but I waited until after blood was taken before doing my injection.

As I have stated numerous times on the forum we always want to start on a T-only protocol let alone start low and go slow.

Lots of time to increase the dose if need be.

More importantly, it is much easier going up than coming down.

Unfortunately many find out the hard way due to the nonsense spewed by those so-called gurus or bum*** forums littered on the internet (gootube, I don't geddit, bum-nation), you get the point.

Everyone and their brother is being brainwashed into that more T is better mentality!

Pure nonsense!

 

[madman]

Your Free T is calculated trough at 26.8 ng/dL, likely putting your peak Free T somewhere around 30-35 ng/dL.

Your CBC is normal. As of right now you may not even have reached a steady state, let alone allowing your body enough time to adapt to the new protocol, which can take 8-12 weeks in some cases.

He was started on a piss poor protocol from the get-go!

Anyone with sense in their head would have told the guy he was started on too high a dose.

 

[Carguy14]

Thanks, all. So, I assume it’s safe to drop from 200mg to 100mg? My last shot was 100mg and I feel the same since Thursday. I also started taking enclomiphene for teste shrinkage…will see how that does.

 

[Systemlord]

I also started taking enclomiphene for teste shrinkage…will see how that does.

As mentioned prior, enclomiphene won’t do anything for testicle atrophy, while on injectable testosterone.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Thanks, all. So, I assume it’s safe to drop from 200mg to 100mg? My last shot was 100mg and I feel the same since Thursday. I also started taking enclomiphene for teste shrinkage…will see how that does.

Yeah, enclomiphene isn't going to prevent testicle shrinkage on that dose of T. What the enclomiphene may actually do is block some benefits of TRT that are mediated by estradiol while introducing new side effects. This is a no-brainer to remove that from the protocol.

 

[Carguy14]

Even if I drop to 100mg? What other side affects can I expect with enclomiphene?

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Even if I drop to 100mg?

Yes, it is useless to prevent testicular atrophy even at 100 mg. At what point would it become effective? I don't know for sure, and it would depend on the individual, but I would guess somewhere around 50 mg weekly or less. Your TRT dose would need to put you close to the threshold of full HPTA suppression so that the enclomiphene could tip you back towards not being fully suppressed. At 100 mg, you are too thoroughly suppressed for enclomiphene to make any difference.

What other side affects can I expect with enclomiphene?

There's no guarantee you'll experience any side effects, but the list of possible side effects is pretty long. Some possibilities include headaches, eye floaters, diarrhea, nausea, joint pain, depression, anxiety, etc. Because the possibility of benefit is zero, your risk benefit analysis looks something like all risk, no benefit.

 

[madman]

Thanks, all. So, I assume it’s safe to drop from 200mg to 100mg? My last shot was 100mg and I feel the same since Thursday. I also started taking enclomiphene for teste shrinkage…will see how that does.

Again as others have stated forget the enclomiphene as your hpta will still be shut down.

If you are concerned with maintaining fertility and minimizing/preventing testicular atrophy which is a given when using exogenous T then you will want to look into hCG.

Even then as I stated previously you are far better off starting on a T-only protocol before throwing in the hCG as we want to see how your body is going to react to testosterone let alone where said protocol (dose T/injection frequency) will have your trough TT/FT levels.

You can eventually add in hCG if need be.

The bottom line here is do what you feel is best for you.

If you want to stay on your current protocol then go nuts.

Not a smart move starting out on an absurd dose of T.

Again always best to start low and go slow.

Much easier to titrate up slowly over time if need be.

If you decide to drop your weekly dose then you would be far better off injecting 100-120 mg T/week split into twice-weekly injections (50-60 mg every 3.5 days).

You will be clipping the extreme peak--->trough one would get when injecting once weekly and your blood levels will be more stable throughout the week.

Although some men will do well injecting once weekly the downfall for many is the big difference in peak--->trough as blood levels will not be as stable throughout the week which can have a negative impact on energy, mood, libido, erectile function, and recovery.

Rollercoaster type effect.

Again keep in mind when first starting therapy or tweaking a protocol (dose of T/injection frequency) hormones will be in FLUX during the weeks leading up until blood levels have stabilized (4-6 weeks TC/TE) and it is common for many to experience ups/downs during the transition as the body is trying to adjust.

Even then once blood levels have stabilized it will still take time (a few months) for the body to adapt to the new set-point and this is the critical time period when one needs to truly gauge how they feel overall regarding relief/improvement of low symptoms.

Every protocol needs to be given a fighting chance (12 weeks) to claim whether it was truly a success or failure.

Otherwise, you will be left in a constant state of confusion chasing your tail endlessly.

 

[Carguy14]

Thanks for the very thoughtful and detailed replies!

 

[Carguy14]

Update is, folks were right, the enclomephene not only didn’t work as a remedy for teste shrinkage, it caused liver pain. I am now on 2nd shot of hcg and quit encl after 2 weeks.

However blood work came back and total test 611 and estradiol was low at 10L. This is after moving my t dosage from 200 to 100ml for about a month now. Any thoughts on how to raise my estrogen…or do I need to? I feel fine..great actually.