Very confused . Opinions?

So I’m confused on my latest blood work. Back in 2021 I was taking 16mg daily and got my results
total test : 1049
Free test 319
Estrogens 59

Now I used the best blood tests the Lc/ms/ms ones that measure more accurate. Since I wanted to know for sure.

THIS time it’s been 3 years and I just went on October 17 2024 . I lowered my dosage to 14mg daily since I thought they were a bit high . I felt great for that whole time and just now decided to test since it’s been so long .this time I also went thru my doctor who ordered the labs. Now they show

Total test : 550
Free test : 17.5
Estrogen 16

Sooooo what the fucking fuck? Lol. I pin RELIGIOUSLY. Every day in alternating shoulders. I measure to a T every time. My questions I think are does the average endocrinologist order shitty inaccurate tests? Or do I have so much scar tissue in my shoulders that the trt isn’t absorbing ? Does trt lose its effectiveness? (No right ? )
And also my ALT and protien levels were slightly elevated … could that be what’s messing up my levels if trt is absorbed by the liver ? Thanks to all who give an opinion .

@madman my friend do you have any theories ?

The most probable cause is diluted testosterone. Is your testosterone pharma or from a site?

The total testosterone tests are reliable and the decrease in free T and estrogens is consistent with the total testosterone decrease.

Elevated liver enzymes indicate something is going on with the liver. Are you taking anabols or supplements claiming to have anabolic effects?

Rogue702 said:

So I’m confused on my latest blood work. Back in 2021 I was taking 16mg daily and got my results
total test : 1049
Free test 319
Estrogens 59

Now I used the best blood tests the Lc/ms/ms ones that measure more accurate. Since I wanted to know for sure.

THIS time it’s been 3 years and I just went on October 17 2024 . I lowered my dosage to 14mg daily since I thought they were a bit high . I felt great for that whole time and just now decided to test since it’s been so long .this time I also went thru my doctor who ordered the labs. Now they show

Total test : 550
Free test : 17.5
Estrogen 16

Sooooo what the fucking fuck? Lol. I pin RELIGIOUSLY. Every day in alternating shoulders. I measure to a T every time. My questions I think are does the average endocrinologist order shitty inaccurate tests? Or do I have so much scar tissue in my shoulders that the trt isn’t absorbing ? Does trt lose its effectiveness? (No right ? )
And also my ALT and protien levels were slightly elevated … could that be what’s messing up my levels if trt is absorbed by the liver ? Thanks to all who give an opinion .

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Back in 2021 I was taking 16mg daily and got my results
total test : 1049
Free test 319
Estrogens 59


On your previous protocol 16 mg T daily (112 mg/week) in 2021 you were hitting a high TT 1049 ng/dL and more importantly an absurdly high FT 31.5 ng/dL.

As you would know when injecting daily you are minimizing the peak--->trough and blood levels would be very stable throughout the week.

Even then it's a given that your FT would be absurdly high hitting a TT 1049 ng/dL with an absurdly low SHBG 9 nmol/L.

Luckily both total and free were tested using the most accurate assays TT (LC/MS-MS) and FT (Equilibrium Dialysis).

This is critical especially in cases of altered SHBG.

You clearly had and still have absurdly low SHBG (9--->8 nmol/L).

Regardless if you felt great overall, blood markers were healthy minus any sides then I see no issue but chances are most running high/absurdly high trough/steady-state FT levels would be struggling with elevated hematocrit!




THIS time it’s been 3 years and I just went on October 17 2024 . I lowered my dosage to 14mg daily since I thought they were a bit high . I felt great for that whole time and just now decided to test since it’s been so long .this time I also went thru my doctor who ordered the labs. Now they show

Total test : 550
Free test : 17.5
Estrogen 16


This is where the situation gets sticky!

Why would you wait 3 years before getting labs done after switching a protocol let alone being on TTh?

Unless I am missing something here I find it hard to believe anyone in their right mind on TTh would wait 3 years to have labs done let alone after tweaking a protocol.

To me this would say that you have been self treating using UGL gear as no doctor would treat you without following up with blood work 1-2X yearly or when tweaking a protocol (dose T/injection frequency).

It is well known that any time a protocol is tweaked you need to wait 4-6 weeks (TC/TE) for blood levels to stabilize and then blood work would be done in order to see where said protocol (dose T/injection frequency) has your trough TT, FT, estradiol, SHBG and in some cases DHT let alone critical blood markers RBCs, hemoglobin and hematocrit and throw iron/ferritin in there too!

You lowered your dose 16 mg T (112 mg/week) --->14 mg T (98 mg/week) which is not a drastic drop in dose yet your TT/FT is much lower 1048--->550 ng/dL.

On your current protocol 14 mg T daily (98 mg/week) your hitting a descent TT 550 ng/dL and more importantly a high-end FT 17.5 ng/dL.

Even then it's a given that your FT would be high-end hitting a TT 550 ng/dL with an absurdly low SHBG 8 nmol/L.

Most would tell you that your TT is not high enough but they lack the understanding that even though a TT 550 ng/dL may be far from high with an absurdly low SHBG 8 nmol/L it would be a given that FT would still be high-end!

Seeing as you are still hitting a high-end FT 17.5 ng/dL this is most likely why you stated that you have felt great this whole time on your current protocol - I lowered my dosage to 14mg daily since I thought they were a bit high . I felt great for that whole time and just now decided to test since it’s been so long .this time

This time around you had your total tested using the most accurate assay LC/MS-MS but your FT was calculated!

If your blood work was done at Quest keep in mind that they use a modified form of cFTV.

If we calculate your FT using cFTV with a descent TT 550 ng/dL, absurdly low SHBG 8 nmol/L your FT 19.5 ng/dL would high-end!

Keep in mind cFTV tends to overestimate slightly so if you had your FT testing using the most accurate assay the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis it would most likely be slightly lower so you would most likely still be hitting a high-end FT!






Remember any time you have blood work done whether sticking with the same protocol (dose of T/injection frequency) or tweaking your protocol (dose T/injection frequency) it is critical that you always test using the same lab and same assays TT (LC/MS-MS) and FT (Equilibrium Dialysis).

Always testing at the true trough on said injection frequency.

Even then your TT/FT levels should have not dropped that much going from 16 mg T (112 mg/week) --->14 mg T (98 mg/week).

Are you self treating using UGL gear?

Have you been injecting strictly IM the last 3 years?

So first off I know I’m a dumbass who waited so long to test but I felt great so I chose to not since I absolutely hate doing my blood work (huge fear of blood) and my doctor is somewhat negligent and didn’t ask for updated bloods . So yes def bad on both our parts. And no I’m getting it prescribed from him to my smiths pharmacy it’s never been underground stuff . It just doesn’t make sense to me why the levels would have changed so much if I only lowered the dose by 2mg and it’s still daily IM yes. I’m questioning if quest measured it properly . Also I did take the bloods at 3pm vs when I normally inject around 9-10 am

sammmy said:

The most probable cause is diluted testosterone. Is your testosterone pharma or from a site?

The total testosterone tests are reliable and the decrease in free T and estrogens is consistent with the total testosterone decrease.

Elevated liver enzymes indicate something is going on with the liver. Are you taking anabols or supplements claiming to have anabolic effects?

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This is what in thinking cause ever since I got this “willshire “ test cyp I haven’t felt the same and my labs came back almost half of where they should be . It’s straight from my pharmacy and I even called them to see if they can order something else hit they say it’s all they can get . How do you know if the test has been diluted ?

And also my alt was 67 . Just above the range of 22- 45 . At quest . And no anabolic just try and hcg pregnyl

Rogue702 said:

So first off I know I’m a dumbass who waited so long to test but I felt great so I chose to not since I absolutely hate doing my blood work (huge fear of blood) and my doctor is somewhat negligent and didn’t ask for updated bloods . So yes def bad on both our parts. And no I’m getting it prescribed from him to my smiths pharmacy it’s never been underground stuff . It just doesn’t make sense to me why the levels would have changed so much if I only lowered the dose by 2mg and it’s still daily IM yes. I’m questioning if quest measured it properly . Also I did take the bloods at 3pm vs when I normally inject around 9-10 am

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It's okay but even though you felt great it is makes no sense that any doctor treating someone with exogenous T would not follow up with yearly blood work as this is critical/standard protocol even if paying out of pocket especially when it come to keeping an eye on critical blood markers RBCs, hemoglobin and hematocrit let alone making sure hormones are in a healthy range.

I would be looking for a new doctor!

Especially seeing as you had mentioned in previous threads that you had been struggling with high-end hematocrit 54%.

I still remember when you were clearly overmedicated on that 200 mg T/week protocol.

Also keep in mind if you are using pharma grade T prescribed through your doctor then there is still a chance of issues with the quality of some generics.

There has been some members who have had issues with a drastic drop in T levels after switching over to a generic brand.

I don’t know if you’ve been getting the same thing happen to you but I’ve gotten SO many brands in the past year vs the past 3 years when it was steadily perrigo or phizer. Now it’s some company called “willshire” and ever since having this one it just hasn’t felt the same . Is there any way to know by looking at the vial or consistency if it’s not potent ? Is there anyways to check if the companies have recalls or quality issues?

Also I live in Las Vegas and for all the glitz and glam it’s know for we have HORRIBLE Doctors here . I literally know more than my endocrinologist and have to remind him about what hormones do what but for the sake of not needling to do bloods and getting easy perscriptions I stayed with him . I’ll be looking elsewhere I know it’s best for me to have a good doctor forcing me to check my levels Atleast once a year

I'm relatively new to this. I'm on week 16 and have been on Cipla and Padagis. Been feeling great except the last two weeks when I had to switch to wilshire right after my 3 month labs. I've been searching all over to find someone with your experience. I'm told there is a 20% variance allowance (90%-110%) for these drugs. I'm wondering if it's just weak or maybe it's a bad batch. I'm not near my old vials to check lot numbers but will reply back ASAP to compare with you.

My plan is to up my dose by 20% and see how I feel.

Have you tested your labs to confirm the way you’re feeling ?