DHT Cream Plus Testosterone Propionate = Major Libido Boost

camygod said:

Every single video is like some brand new life changing epithony I can smell through his bullshit marketing
He has some good Info but comes across too dude bro for me
He also needs to put a t shirt on for god sake mans in his 40s
Charging $100 for some source list is a joke too.

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Yes, what I said initially, every week an eureka. He is the online lab rat. It's about marketing, sharing what's all possible but you gotta pay up to get a personal solution. That's the deal, everywhere, also with your MDs

Why did I post it? Be aware of the possible difference of topical application sites, do not just aim for max absorption.

FunkOdyssey said:

My reactions to this video:

Why is he always talking about the androgen receptor content of application sites? What does that matter? Why does he think that is relevant to absorption or metabolism? This is one of those moments where I feel like he reveals himself as being less than an expert.

I agree with the overall premise of the video: there are different outcomes that can be realized with different application sites, and we should not all be following the rouzier/nichols dogma that scrotal application is the only viable approach. Maybe the ratios of metabolites will differ for different people at different sites, and we all need to run individual experiments to discover how different parts of our bodies perform.

I'm surprised Cortex didn't mention skin thickness in that video, as it seems like a very important differentiator between sites. Instead he's talking about AR density. Maybe in practice, there is not a direct relationship between thickness and absorption? Only one way to find out.

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He's right about androgen receptors though, it matters a LOT. So yes different application sites can make a significant difference in outcome.

I am taking a weeklong break. I could feel it affecting my prostate after prolonged use. It wasn't unpleasant or serious, but I was peeing a lot, and the urgency was intense. Also, I could just sense that it felt different. After 3 days off, it has cleared up. Of note, I am 67, so I may be more susceptible to those types of sides.

I had my PSA tested while using the cream and it was normal, unchanged from the last test, so I have no worries about that aspect.

I will add that I also have sensed a change in mood and overall attitude since stopping. It's a bit of a letdown. I plan on starting again this weekend, but maybe cycle it a little better. That was my initial intention, but damn... those perks are addictive!

Seagal said:

Has anyone of you (daily DHT users) lab values of free hormones (T,E2,DHT) while using DHT vs not using DHT?

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I'll test only Total T, E2 and DHT. If this solved my libido issues then I'd do a full blood panel to see where I stand overall.

Seagal said:

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His main popularity came from being basically the only youtuber promoting Test P during the time it gained new popularity among people that don't do well on longer esters. Even then in his Test P video the "benefits" were overblown. That's also the time I found him and found him a bit over the top, but it was good that someone was talking about some new trends regarding TRT.

Cortex is just a typical youtuber with mostly clickbaity titles trying to get views and shilling his product. Now he has positioned himself as a libido "expert", because he noticed that many people have issues with libido on TRT and that there is money to be made. His prices for consultations as well as selling the "source list" are completely absurd. His "experimentation" is largely worthless as he's never on the protocol long enough, so it's hard to what the exact results are due to him over-blowing things. In the beginning of September he mentioned how he's on 700mg/week of Test P, yet one month later he is suddenly on 140mg/week of Test E? Also he experimented with DHT in between? He also mentioned taking DHT orally? In just one month so many things changed that it's impossible to know what was really happening. It seems like each video he has a different protocol.

Overall many of his videos are contradictory and all "promise" a solution to the libido problems. In one video the solution is microdosing Arimidex, next one is Aromasin, then it's using DHT gel, etc. All of it worthless.

Seagal said:

Yes, what I said initially, every week an eureka. He is the online lab rat. It's about marketing, sharing what's all possible but you gotta pay up to get a personal solution. That's the deal, everywhere, also with your MDs

Why did I post it? Be aware of the possible difference of topical application sites, do not just aim for max absorption.

Click to expand...

It's okay to post information. You can learn from all sources... Some offer good information, some show you that there is a lot of BS out there.

"Live and learn from fools and from sages"
Stephen Tyler / Dream On

ziegen said:

I'll test only Total T, E2 and DHT. If this solved my libido issues then I'd do a full blood panel to see where I stand overall.


His main popularity came from being basically the only youtuber promoting Test P during the time it gained new popularity among people that don't do well on longer esters. Even then in his Test P video the "benefits" were overblown. That's also the time I found him and found him a bit over the top, but it was good that someone was talking about some new trends regarding TRT.

Cortex is just a typical youtuber with mostly clickbaity titles trying to get views and shilling his product. Now he has positioned himself as a libido "expert", because he noticed that many people have issues with libido on TRT and that there is money to be made. His prices for consultations as well as selling the "source list" are completely absurd. His "experimentation" is largely worthless as he's never on the protocol long enough, so it's hard to what the exact results are due to him over-blowing things. In the beginning of September he mentioned how he's on 700mg/week of Test P, yet one month later he is suddenly on 140mg/week of Test E? Also he experimented with DHT in between? He also mentioned taking DHT orally? In just one month so many things changed that it's impossible to know what was really happening. It seems like each video he has a different protocol.

Overall many of his videos are contradictory and all "promise" a solution to the libido problems. In one video the solution is microdosing Arimidex, next one is Aromasin, then it's using DHT gel, etc. All of it worthless.

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What I think is hilarious is mike cernivocih? And jay Campbell(both clown's) recommended test prop way back in 2016
He is as bad as vigorous Steve thinking he caused the price raise in primo.

Kenp said:

He's right about androgen receptors though, it matters a LOT. So yes different application sites can make a significant difference in outcome.

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Please explain to me how the androgen receptor density of the application site affects systemic absorption, or metabolism of testosterone to DHT and estradiol, or anything else besides local growth of tissue at the site.

Kenp said:

He's right about androgen receptors though, it matters a LOT. So yes different application sites can make a significant difference in outcome.

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I don't think androgen receptors matter when it comes to absorption, why would that affect anything? All that matters is that it gets into your blood. In pretty much all the tests and studies it has been shown that scrotal application is the best for absorption. Sure, some may prefer delts, maybe they convert too much to DHT on the scrotal application and get negatives from it. But in the end it's not like 100mg of T cream will absorb the same or better on the delts. Maybe you'd need 100mg/day on the scrotum, but you can't handle it due to DHT, therefore you decide to apply 300mg/day to the delts instead, and it's better for your case. And that's completely fine, but it's way different than saying you have better absorption on delts than on the scrotum no?

BadassBlues said:

I am taking a weeklong break. I could feel it affecting my prostate after prolonged use. It wasn't unpleasant or serious, but I was peeing a lot, and the urgency was intense. Also, I could just sense that it felt different. After 3 days off, it has cleared up. Of note, I am 67, so I may be more susceptible to those types of sides.

I had my PSA tested while using the cream and it was normal, unchanged from the last test, so I have no worries about that aspect.

I will add that I also have sensed a change in mood and overall attitude since stopping. It's a bit of a letdown. I plan on starting again this weekend, but maybe cycle it a little better. That was my initial intention, but damn... those perks are addictive!

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What dose have you been taking all this time? Did you do any DHT tests? Maybe there would be no need to abandon DHT, but use a smaller dose to maybe get your T : DHT ratio to 1:1 or maybe a bit higher for DHT. In this thread it mostly seems like all of us use a pretty high dose, maybe it's good to get a feel for what benefits await you, but for long term use we should be aiming lower.

camygod said:

What I think is hilarious is mike cernivocih? And jay Campbell(both clown's )
recommended test prop way back in 2016
He is as bad as vigorous Steve thinking he causes the price raise in promo

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I heard anecdotes here and there on how it's the most optimal protocol, but it's harder to follow due to daily injections. While some expressed benefits, it seemed like it's an alternative to the traditional way of having constant hormones, rather than some other solution. Only recently it seems a lot of people have come out and said that they noticed a massive difference. Overall TRT is a difficult subject, it's not really well researched and it's incredibly individual, so it's hard to say for sure, but just keep an open mind and try out different things, ideally based on blood tests.

FunkOdyssey said:

Please explain to me how the androgen receptor density of the application site affects systemic absorption, or metabolism of testosterone to DHT and estradiol, or anything else besides local growth of tissue at the site.

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Because it can cause more conversion to other hormones like DHT for example.


"We conclude that testosterone administration to scrotal skin is well tolerated and produces dose-dependent peak serum testosterone concentration with a much lower dose relative to the non-scrotal transdermal route."

Also many anecdotal evidence of people reporting different outcomes when changing application sites.

BadassBlues said:

I am taking a weeklong break. I could feel it affecting my prostate after prolonged use. It wasn't unpleasant or serious, but I was peeing a lot, and the urgency was intense. Also, I could just sense that it felt different. After 3 days off, it has cleared up. Of note, I am 67, so I may be more susceptible to those types of sides.

I had my PSA tested while using the cream and it was normal, unchanged from the last test, so I have no worries about that aspect.

I will add that I also have sensed a change in mood and overall attitude since stopping. It's a bit of a letdown. I plan on starting again this weekend, but maybe cycle it a little better. That was my initial intention, but damn... those perks are addictive!

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Do u think if u changed the application site(s) so they’re not so close to ur taint/ prostate, it would help at all?

Kenp said:

Because it can cause more conversion to other hormones like DHT for example.

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This is not caused by androgen receptor density. Androgen receptors do not participate in the metabolism of testosterone into DHT or estradiol. This is a fundamental misunderstanding of biology that I've heard Cortex express in his videos.

Here is what causes increased DHT levels with scrotal administration of testosterone, from the quoted study:

Disproportionate increases in serum DHT are reported after administration of all transdermal testosterone products with the higher DHT/T ratio attributable to the strong expression of 5-alpha reductase in skin structures which foster the conversion of testosterone to DHT during transdermal passage. Furthermore androgens induce greater expression of the 5α reductase enzyme whereby administration of an androgen directly onto the skin creates a feed-forward (positive feedback) mechanism (Russell & Wilson, 1994; McNamara et al., 2013).

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The real reason scrotal skin may be preferable over some other sites relates to absorption:

scrotal skin is advantageous for transdermal testosterone delivery as it has the thinnest stratum corneum (Smith et al., 1961; Ya-Xian et al., 1999), high steroid permeability (Wester & Maibach, 1989) many times greater than non-scrotal skin

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Again, nothing at all to do with androgen receptor density, which is irrelevant to all outcomes, except for perhaps the growth of local tissue if testosterone cream is applied to a muscle. On the other hand, skin thickness may matter alot, which is why I was surprised Cortex completely ignored it.

Kenp said:

Also many anecdotal evidence of people reporting different outcomes when changing application sites.

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This is the nugget of truth from the video. Different sites may differ in at least three important ways that will influence outcomes:

1) Absorption of testosterone
2) Amount of 5-alpha reductase enzyme
3) Amount of aromatase enzyme

So for the same amount of testosterone cream applied to any particular site, you may have a different testosterone level, a different DHT level, and a different E2 level. I've been discussing this with @Jerajera quite a bit recently and his personal results have been very different from Cortex's observations.

Jerajera had relatively low T and high DHT and E2 with scrotal application, and higher T and lower DHT and E2 with inner arm / inner elbow application (still biased towards a higher DHT/E2 ratio than injections though). I found one study which suggests scrotal skin has an amount of aromatase comparable to adipose tissue. The focus is usually on the increased DHT conversion with scrotal application, but it may be that scrotal skin also produces less desirable T/E2 ratios in some people.

AI has some ideas as to why scrotal application may create more E2 than some other sites:

Aromatase enzyme levels are indeed present in scrotal skin, as well as in other areas of the body. However, specific research comparing the levels of aromatase in scrotal skin to other body regions is limited. Here's what we know:

1. Scrotal Skin Aromatase Activity: Aromatase activity is present in genital skin fibroblasts, including the scrotum. This activity allows for the conversion of androgens to estrogens in local tissues, which is important for local estrogen synthesis. One study found that aromatase activity in genital skin fibroblasts is comparable to other tissues like adipose tissue (Berkovitz et al., 1984).
2. Comparison with Other Areas: Aromatase is expressed in various body tissues, including the skin, adipose tissue, and bones. However, aromatase activity in genital skin (including scrotal skin) may be higher compared to non-genital skin regions, likely due to the role of estrogen synthesis in reproductive tissues (Bulun et al., 1999).

In summary, while aromatase is present in scrotal skin, it appears to be more active in regions where local estrogen production is critical, such as the genital area, compared to non-genital skin.

Gman86 said:

Do u think if u changed the application site(s) so they’re not so close to ur taint/ prostate, it would help at all?

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Possible, but I have never tried any other sites.

FunkOdyssey said:

This is the nugget of truth from the video. Different sites may differ in at least three important ways that will influence outcomes:

1) Absorption of testosterone
2) Amount of 5-alpha reductase enzyme
3) Amount of aromatase enzyme

So for the same amount of testosterone cream applied to any particular site, you may have a different testosterone level, a different DHT level, and a different E2 level. I've been discussing this with @Jerajera quite a bit recently and his personal results have been very different from Cortex's observations.

Jerajera had relatively low T and high DHT and E2 with scrotal application, and higher T and lower DHT and E2 with inner arm / inner elbow application (still biased towards a higher DHT/E2 ratio than injections though). I found one study which suggests scrotal skin has an amount of aromatase comparable to adipose tissue. The focus is usually on the increased DHT conversion with scrotal application, but it may be that scrotal skin also produces less desirable T/E2 ratios in some people.

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I'll post my numbers here to add to @FunkOdyssey 's post.

With TT = 1700ng/dL and FT = 37ng/dL on what I think was 22 or 24mg/day Test C, my E2 (always sensitive) was 70pg/mL.

On non-scrotal cream, with TT = 2100ng/dL and FT = 68ng/dL, my E2 was 40pg/mL. So with FT exactly half of that on injectables, my E2 was almost double.

I had other labs drawn on non-scrotal (half the dose as the one of the results above), and E2 was again very low compared to equivalent FT on injectables.

However on scrotal cream, with TT = 1100ng/dL and FT = 25ng/dL, E2 was 55pg/mL.

All results are LC/MS for TT, equilibrium dialysis for FT, and (ultra) sensitive assay for E2. All results are also trough levels 12 hours post application as I was doing 2x/day dosing on the cream at the time.

As a quick aside, I've moved to once/day dosing of the cream, scrotal for now to start at 2 clicks (100mg total) and am having really good success, feeling in every way much better than on any protocol using injectables.

Some slight E2 physiological sides (water retention, spicy nips) and a little overemotionality, but lots of energy, very high and aggressive libido, and cognitive function is the best it's ever been on TRT. 4 weeks so far on this protocol and will run labs on Monday for peak and trough levels.

I do think that once/day application is key for me as more steady levels always lead me to not feeling as good, and on injectables like absolute garbage.

I'll test non-scrotal application and some mix of scrotal and non-scrotal in the near future, but so far this is working well enough that I have no intention of ever going back to injectables.

Jerajera said:

I'll post my numbers here to add to @FunkOdyssey 's post.

With TT = 1700ng/dL and FT = 37ng/dL on what I think was 22 or 24mg/day Test C, my E2 (always sensitive) was 70pg/mL.

On non-scrotal cream, with TT = 2100ng/dL and FT = 68ng/dL, my E2 was 40pg/mL. So with FT exactly half of that on injectables, my E2 was almost double.

I had other labs drawn on non-scrotal (half the dose as the one of the results above), and E2 was again very low compared to equivalent FT on injectables.

However on scrotal cream, with TT = 1100ng/dL and FT = 25ng/dL, E2 was 55pg/mL.

All results are LC/MS for TT, equilibrium dialysis for FT, and (ultra) sensitive assay for E2. All results are also trough levels 12 hours post application as I was doing 2x/day dosing on the cream at the time.

As a quick aside, I've moved to once/day dosing of the cream, scrotal for now to start at 2 clicks (100mg total) and am having really good success, feeling in every way much better than on any protocol using injectables.

Some slight E2 physiological sides (water retention, spicy nips) and a little overemotionality, but lots of energy, very high and aggressive libido, and cognitive function is the best it's ever been on TRT. 4 weeks so far on this protocol and will run labs on Monday for peak and trough levels.

I do think that once/day application is key for me as more steady levels always lead me to not feeling as good, and on injectables like absolute garbage.

I'll test non-scrotal application and some mix of scrotal and non-scrotal in the near future, but so far this is working well enough that I have no intention of ever going back to injectables.

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Thank you for sharing. Do you also had DHT and SHBG measured?

Jerajera said:

I'll post my numbers here to add to @FunkOdyssey 's post.

With TT = 1700ng/dL and FT = 37ng/dL on what I think was 22 or 24mg/day Test C, my E2 (always sensitive) was 70pg/mL.

On non-scrotal cream, with TT = 2100ng/dL and FT = 68ng/dL, my E2 was 40pg/mL. So with FT exactly half of that on injectables, my E2 was almost double.

I had other labs drawn on non-scrotal (half the dose as the one of the results above), and E2 was again very low compared to equivalent FT on injectables.

However on scrotal cream, with TT = 1100ng/dL and FT = 25ng/dL, E2 was 55pg/mL.

All results are LC/MS for TT, equilibrium dialysis for FT, and (ultra) sensitive assay for E2. All results are also trough levels 12 hours post application as I was doing 2x/day dosing on the cream at the time.

As a quick aside, I've moved to once/day dosing of the cream, scrotal for now to start at 2 clicks (100mg total) and am having really good success, feeling in every way much better than on any protocol using injectables.

Some slight E2 physiological sides (water retention, spicy nips) and a little overemotionality, but lots of energy, very high and aggressive libido, and cognitive function is the best it's ever been on TRT. 4 weeks so far on this protocol and will run labs on Monday for peak and trough levels.

I do think that once/day application is key for me as more steady levels always lead me to not feeling as good, and on injectables like absolute garbage.

I'll test non-scrotal application and some mix of scrotal and non-scrotal in the near future, but so far this is working well enough that I have no intention of ever going back to injectables.

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Thanks for sharing mate and damn it makes me want to give cream a test drive lol. Very very interesting results and glad that you are feeling better!

BadassBlues said:

Here are the sources of premade products. I have not personally tried any of them and the reviews are mixed, so buyer beware. I do not have any affiliation with any of these suppliers, I'm just passing along information as my inbox is blowing up with requests for sources. From what I can gather from reliable sources so far, the Alphagels product appears to have the best reviews, but again... no hard evidence of that.

Alphagels DHT: The only way to order is through email [email protected]. I have emailed them for information and will update this when an answer is received. I can't locate a website and have also asked for a list of products. Payment is by bitcoin or Ethereum. The price list and products are in a PDF below.

Russian Star Peptides: These guys offer various strengths in a tube similar to Andractim. The pricing is in Euros on the website, but appears to be reasonable. Payment is by CC and PayPal.

Titan 12% dht gel - Russian Star Peptides

Titan 12% dht gel The worlds number 1 gel for penis growth and collagen softening, awakening the androgen receptors and allowing growth as an adult. This is the only proven method for growth as an adult. Original formula 12% strength. 20ml Use 2 drops twice a day applied to the penis. Titan 12%...

russianstarpeptides.com

Diktator DHT: A single product with 10% DHT (claimed). Payment is by bitcoin.

Diktator (DHT Cream) | IA Superpharma - Best Anabolic Steroids Online | IA Superpharma USA-Lite

Diktator (DHT Cream) is up to 30 times stronger than Testosterone, and plays a lead role in the development of secondary male sex characteristics

iasuperpharma.is

If anyone has anything to add to this list, please let me know.

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Not sure if anyone posted this (have not been able to read whole thread, yet) but you can look at AlphaGels on the ol' twatter I mean twitter I mean X....argh! (x link to their page below) EDIT to add found them in insta too that link below as well (emails match for proton mail what has been posted in this thread already). Thinking I'm going to check some of the DHT cream out. Cheers.

Insta: Login • Instagram

Twatter:

BadassBlues said:

Possible, but I have never tried any other sites.

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Like even just applying it to the penis might result in less prostate aggravation, but still yield some sexual benefits. And also still yield the positive mental benefits, if it’s absorbs fairly well on that area. Which I assume it would. It’s skin, just like anywhere else, and very vascular. But I understand that’s still close to the taint/ prostate, so not sure if it would make much of a difference. Just thinking out loud

Jerajera said:

I'll post my numbers here to add to @FunkOdyssey 's post.

With TT = 1700ng/dL and FT = 37ng/dL on what I think was 22 or 24mg/day Test C, my E2 (always sensitive) was 70pg/mL.

On non-scrotal cream, with TT = 2100ng/dL and FT = 68ng/dL, my E2 was 40pg/mL. So with FT exactly half of that on injectables, my E2 was almost double.

I had other labs drawn on non-scrotal (half the dose as the one of the results above), and E2 was again very low compared to equivalent FT on injectables.

However on scrotal cream, with TT = 1100ng/dL and FT = 25ng/dL, E2 was 55pg/mL.

All results are LC/MS for TT, equilibrium dialysis for FT, and (ultra) sensitive assay for E2. All results are also trough levels 12 hours post application as I was doing 2x/day dosing on the cream at the time.

As a quick aside, I've moved to once/day dosing of the cream, scrotal for now to start at 2 clicks (100mg total) and am having really good success, feeling in every way much better than on any protocol using injectables.

Some slight E2 physiological sides (water retention, spicy nips) and a little overemotionality, but lots of energy, very high and aggressive libido, and cognitive function is the best it's ever been on TRT. 4 weeks so far on this protocol and will run labs on Monday for peak and trough levels.

I do think that once/day application is key for me as more steady levels always lead me to not feeling as good, and on injectables like absolute garbage.

I'll test non-scrotal application and some mix of scrotal and non-scrotal in the near future, but so far this is working well enough that I have no intention of ever going back to injectables.

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My first thought is that the once a day cream application is yielding the least amount of HPTA suppression, compared to all other protocols u’ve tried, including twice a day cream application. I feel like cognitive function and suppression of downstream hormones can tend to go hand in hand. I feel like less hpta suppression/ less downstream hormone suppression = improved cognitive function. Again, most of the time