Gianluca
Well-Known Member
that is a good point, hypothyroidism people can have same issue with Progesterone
Injectable Progesterone SC may not be the best route of administration
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FunkOdyssey
Seeker of Wisdom
You've got me scratching my head here. As Gman and I have said, the sexual effects you're getting from progesterone are basically the holy grail that many of us are chasing with our protocol adjustments. Why is it unwelcome in your case?
Wouldn’t prog possibly increase cortisol levels, since cortisol is a downstream metabolite of progesterone?
Jim Marlowe
Member
"Progesterone, pregnenolone, T, and DHT are all within the group of steroids with anti-cortisol effects and a drop in the levels of any of them contributes to a relative increase in glucocorticoid signaling."
Again, I'm not that knowledgeable, but I've heard the bionergetics people characterize "anabolic" as really "anti-catabolic." In other words, opposing catabolism is inherently pro metabolic and pro-growth.
Im definitely not an expert on the subject either. Thanks for this. Could definitely be accurate
Gianluca
Well-Known Member
it just doesn't feel right, it feels like years ago when my E2 was uncontrolled, minus the erection quality benefit, plus feeling wired and like I'm on something. Just the opposite of what Pro is suppose to do, and the opposite of Pro is Estrogen, which is excitatory.
I have switched to IM today same dose, I will see in a few days if anything changes.
Gianluca
Well-Known Member
this is true, in fact Progesterone can lower ACTH, which I would think Pro would more like reduce the stress response. However, Pro can also feed the pathways and increase cortisol.
Individual variations, and possibly the mechanism is dose dependent as well, with little Pro "helping" to produce cortisol, when more or allot more Pro reducing Cortisol. This what I have observed throughout the years
Jim Marlowe
Member
Dr. Mercola is difficult to pin down because he's constantly "refining" (i.e. changing) his opinion. Here Dr. Mercola argues for "transmucosal" application of progesterone. He says transdermal results in high levels of 5-alpha reductase which converts progesterone into allopgregnanolone. I've done 3 mg Prog / 1 mg DHEA dissolved in Vit E this way. Anti-stress properties to me are clear. And I do think that means it is "anabolic." For me it is complementary with taurine.
Jim Marlowe
Member
That is very helpful. Something to keep in mind because it is so easy to misconstrue "paradoxical" effects based on dose-response.
Gianluca
Well-Known Member
Thanks for attaching this paper, good read.
The only thing I may not agree with Mercola is the dosing for males, 25/30mg in a delivery method that by pass the liver is wow. Probably 1-3mg daily for a men would be more physiological, unless Pro is used pharmacologically short term.
It took me some years to understand that we want to deliver any hormone as close as possible in a physiologic way. Taking Progesterone on the skin, scrotum, or by mouth when non dissolved in fat, it won’t accomplish this, and can cause funky side effect for people.
I came to the conclusion injectable was the preferred method, but if we 100% by pass the first pass of the liver, and have 48hr half life with progesterone dissolved in Vitamin E applied on the gums, I think this is a simpler way to raise levels than injection.
Funny how Ray Peat figured all this out already many years ago. He did mentioned injectable Progesterone, he didn’t like it because the Benzyl alcohol in it.
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Gianluca
Well-Known Member
Did you take this in the am or before bed?
Jim Marlowe
Member
Usually before bed. Sometimes late afternoon if I can sense higher "physiologic stress." Never in the morning. I might do it in the morning with some kind of acute illness, but I don't want to interfere with morning cortisol.
Pnw0031
Member
I’ve felt this with progesterone cream when taking too high of dose. That wired feeling becomes uncomfortable in a short amount of time
Gianluca
Well-Known Member
@Jim Marlowe have you ever checked Progesterone levels while on the 3mg applied to the gums?
Jim Marlowe
Member
No I have not. I only started that when Mercola mentioned it recently. And I've only used a "kernal" sized dose up to twice a day--the 3 mg Prog / 1 mg DHEA.
Gianluca
Well-Known Member
currently comparing these two products:
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Gianluca
Well-Known Member
@Jim Marlowe how do you apply your drop of Progesterone on the gums? do you use just a finger and massage it in?
Jim Marlowe
Member
Yes. Clean hands. One drop the size of a kernel of corn to the index finger and massage into gums. I think the pad of the finger is calloused enough that it is going into the gum and not the finger!
Jim Marlowe
Member
Gianluca
Well-Known Member
I saw this video before. If I had learned about Ray Peat earlier, I would have probably saved allot of time. But when years ago I was exposed to his work, I thought he was a lunatic!
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