Concerned about labs

[Weasel]

I don't see those products having many carbs and if they did it's like everything else that has carbs and shouldn't be a reason for your numbers. I would get retested.

I've got 8-10 sets of labs and most of them are just over 100. like say 104-106. Maybe 2 sets under 100 and they were like 98 IIRC.

 

[Whatzup]

I've got 8-10 sets of labs and most of them are just over 100. like say 104-106. Maybe 2 sets under 100 and they were like 98 IIRC.

Just keep and eye on it. I couldn't wait a month to retest. I got my dad's meter since he's a type 2 and after two hours of eating yesterday mine was 101. This morning fasting 92. This makes me feel better. I'll still get retested in a month especially the a1c. You should check the a1c too.

 

[dnfuss]

I've got 8-10 sets of labs and most of them are just over 100. like say 104-106. Maybe 2 sets under 100 and they were like 98 IIRC.

You're pre-diabetic. How old are you?

 

[Weasel]

You're pre-diabetic. How old are you?

33yrs.
A1c of 5.3 isn't pre diabetic though.

 

[dnfuss]

33yrs.
A1c of 5.3 isn't pre diabetic though.

HgbA1c is a surrogate marker. It is useful for keeping an eye on relative progress. And if you test it under the same relative conditions each time, it is fine for that purpose. It measures glycation products associated with red blood cells. But HgbA1c may, or may not, accurately reflect your actual average blood sugar levels (see https://bit.ly/2to6G0t). Just one example: if you donate blood or undergo phlebotomy your HgbA1c will likely indicate an average blood sugar level much lower than what yours really is.

Diabetes (and prediabetes) is a disease state of abnormal fasting and/or post-prandial serum glucose. Proper diagnosis requires determining both of those values, the latter of which is done using an Oral Glucose Tolerance Test (see https://mayocl.in/2ltKBJl).

But even if your HgbA1c test result of 5.3% is correlative with your average blood sugars, even the American Diabetes Association would equate that with an estimated average glucose of approximately 105 mg/dl (others would say it indicates an even higher average glucose). That, and fasting glucose consistently over 100 are not truly normal blood sugars.
Although strongly associated with inflammatory processes, the etiology of pre-diabetes is usually unclear, and by no means does it inevitably progress to full-blown diagnosed diabetes. In fact only about 35-40% of those with prediabetes will do so. But while the majority of pre-diabetics do not progress to diabetes, pre-diabetes is not a benign condition. Pre-diabetics, e.g., experience serious cardiovascular events (stroke and heart attacks) at significantly higher rates than those with truly normal blood sugars.

The goal for diabetics and prediabetics should be to achieve truly normal blood sugars, the same as healthy non-diabetics, i.e., fasting blood sugar in the mid-80s, 100 or below one hour after a meal and fasting blood sugar by two hours. These are the numbers for healthy non-diabetics with truly normal blood sugars no matter what they eat or how much (or how little) they exercise.

 

[Weasel]

HgbA1c is a surrogate marker. It is useful for keeping an eye on relative progress. And if you test it under the same relative conditions each time, it is fine for that purpose. It measures glycation products associated with red blood cells. But HgbA1c may, or may not, accurately reflect your actual average blood sugar levels (see https://bit.ly/2to6G0t). Just one example: if you donate blood or undergo phlebotomy your HgbA1c will likely indicate an average blood sugar level much lower than what yours really is.

Diabetes (and prediabetes) is a disease state of abnormal fasting and/or post-prandial serum glucose. Proper diagnosis requires determining both of those values, the latter of which is done using an Oral Glucose Tolerance Test (see https://mayocl.in/2ltKBJl).

But even if your HgbA1c test result of 5.3% is correlative with your average blood sugars, even the American Diabetes Association would equate that with an estimated average glucose of approximately 105 mg/dl (others would say it indicates an even higher average glucose). That, and fasting glucose consistently over 100 are not truly normal blood sugars.
Although strongly associated with inflammatory processes, the etiology of pre-diabetes is usually unclear, and by no means does it inevitably progress to full-blown diagnosed diabetes. In fact only about 35-40% of those with prediabetes will do so. But while the majority of pre-diabetics do not progress to diabetes, pre-diabetes is not a benign condition. Pre-diabetics, e.g., experience serious cardiovascular events (stroke and heart attacks) at significantly higher rates than those with truly normal blood sugars.

The goal for diabetics and prediabetics should be to achieve truly normal blood sugars, the same as healthy non-diabetics, i.e., fasting blood sugar in the mid-80s, 100 or below one hour after a meal and fasting blood sugar by two hours. These are the numbers for healthy non-diabetics with truly normal blood sugars no matter what they eat or how much (or how little) they exercise.

Thanks DNF,

I appreciate the thorough post for sure!

Recommendations for me?

 

[dnfuss]

First and foremost: you need to know what your blood sugars actually are. Get a blood sugar meter and some test strips, no prescriptions required. The Freestyle Freedom Lite meter (that’s the one I use) and Freestyle Lite meter (slightly smaller), both from Abbott Laboratories, are highly accurate and recommended by noted diabetologist Dr. Richard Bernstein (they're the only ones he's found to be tolerably accurate at near-normal blood sugar levels). Buy the strips on eBay for about ⅓ of the cost in a drugstore (just make sure they’re long-dated and from a seller that sells lots of them, for example: https://ebay.to/2o5Wdnu). You will also need lancets (you don’t need to change out a lancet until it gets dull; buy a box of 100 and they’ll last you for years; I like these: https://amzn.to/2w5hJNA) and a lancing device (this is a great cheap one: https://amzn.to/2LoiuWG). Draw on the sides of your fingertips (not the pads, that hurts!); here’s how: https://bit.ly/2PtH4Zo. Test yourself upon arising and one, two and three hours after meals. Here's is some helpful information on that process: https://bit.ly/2Iixe87.

If the resulting blood sugars are completely normal (see my previous post), congratulations! If you are still seeing fasting blood sugars upon arising of over 100 mg/dl, they are not. It will also be helpful to see what your post-meal blood sugars are. Blood sugars that fall into the category of pre-diabetes (or diabetes) need to be normalized.

For solid information about high blood sugars and how to normalize them, I highly recommend the book "Diabetes Solution" by Dr. Richard Bernstein. It explains how everyone, including pre-diabetics and diabetics, deserves and can have normal blood sugars. The protocol (highly simplified) laid out therein for achieving truly normal blood sugars in a nutshell is as follows (note that each step includes all the previous ones, i.e., if #1 isn’t enough, you add #2, if still not enough you add #3, etc.):

1. First and foremost, a low-carb diet. No one with blood sugar control issues can achieve truly normal blood sugars without it, no matter what medications they're on. Dr. Bernstein's diet calls for less than 30 grams of carbohydrate per day for average-sized adults. I try to adhere to that, but it is pretty tough and may not be necessary for everyone. If your blood sugar control is only marginally compromised, you might first try below 100 grams per day. If that's not enough, try going down to 50 grams per day. If that doesn’t do it, try 30.

2. If diet alone is insufficient to achieve normal blood sugars, add exercise, both resistance and cardio.

3. If still insufficient, add oral agents. Metformin first and foremost. If that doesn't work, there are others to try.

4. If still insufficient, add insulin.

Don’t worry too much at this point. Maybe (depending on what your post-meal blood sugars are) adopting a moderately low-carb diet will do the trick for you (I’m assuming you’re not already on one?).

But definitely get yourself a meter and test strips and start by gathering data.

Good luck and don’t hesitate to ask questions if tyou have them.

 

[Weasel]

First and foremost: you need to know what your blood sugars actually are. Get a blood sugar meter and some test strips, no prescriptions required. The Freestyle Freedom Lite meter (that’s the one I use) and Freestyle Lite meter (slightly smaller), both from Abbott Laboratories, are highly accurate and recommended by noted diabetologist Dr. Richard Bernstein (they're the only ones he's found to be tolerably accurate at near-normal blood sugar levels). Buy the strips on eBay for about ⅓ of the cost in a drugstore (just make sure they’re long-dated and from a seller that sells lots of them, for example: https://ebay.to/2o5Wdnu). You will also need lancets (you don’t need to change out a lancet until it gets dull; buy a box of 100 and they’ll last you for years; I like these: https://amzn.to/2w5hJNA) and a lancing device (this is a great cheap one: https://amzn.to/2LoiuWG). Draw on the sides of your fingertips (not the pads, that hurts!); here’s how: https://bit.ly/2PtH4Zo. Test yourself upon arising and one, two and three hours after meals. Here's is some helpful information on that process: https://bit.ly/2Iixe87.

If the resulting blood sugars are completely normal (see my previous post), congratulations! If you are still seeing fasting blood sugars upon arising of over 100 mg/dl, they are not. It will also be helpful to see what your post-meal blood sugars are. Blood sugars that fall into the category of pre-diabetes (or diabetes) need to be normalized.

For solid information about high blood sugars and how to normalize them, I highly recommend the book "Diabetes Solution" by Dr. Richard Bernstein. It explains how everyone, including pre-diabetics and diabetics, deserves and can have normal blood sugars. The protocol (highly simplified) laid out therein for achieving truly normal blood sugars in a nutshell is as follows (note that each step includes all the previous ones, i.e., if #1 isn’t enough, you add #2, if still not enough you add #3, etc.):

1. First and foremost, a low-carb diet. No one with blood sugar control issues can achieve truly normal blood sugars without it, no matter what medications they're on. Dr. Bernstein's diet calls for less than 30 grams of carbohydrate per day for average-sized adults. I try to adhere to that, but it is pretty tough and may not be necessary for everyone. If your blood sugar control is only marginally compromised, you might first try below 100 grams per day. If that's not enough, try going down to 50 grams per day. If that doesn’t do it, try 30.

2. If diet alone is insufficient to achieve normal blood sugars, add exercise, both resistance and cardio.

3. If still insufficient, add oral agents. Metformin first and foremost. If that doesn't work, there are others to try.

4. If still insufficient, add insulin.

Don’t worry too much at this point. Maybe (depending on what your post-meal blood sugars are) adopting a moderately low-carb diet will do the trick for you (I’m assuming you’re not already on one?).

But definitely get yourself a meter and test strips and start by gathering data.

Good luck and don’t hesitate to ask questions if tyou have them.

Thanks DNF, I've got a meter and I'll look up Dr. Bernstein

 

[MarkM]

I found this article interesting..........

Suppress Deadly After-Meal Blood Sugar Surges
http://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2012/2/Suppress-Deadly-After-Meal-Blood-Sugar-Surges/Page-01

Green Coffee Bean Extract - Chlorogenic Acid Combats Excess Glucose

"One team of researchers found that the risk of developing diabetes itself was increased more than seven-fold in people with fasting glucose levels of 105-109 mg/dL, compared with people with fasting glucose levels less than 85 mg/dL.

An analysis of 1,800 maturing individuals revealed that coronary artery disease rates over a 10-year period in individuals currently defined as "pre-diabetic" were nearly identical to those with full-blown diabetes.

A similar analysis of 33,230 men found that high glucose within the "normal" range was independently associated with a 38% increase in deaths from digestive tract cancers.

These results underscore the critical need to redefine diabetes as fasting glucose above 85 mg/dL.

Compelling new data reveal that the chlorogenic acid content in coffee is primarily responsible for its glucose-lowering effects via several interesting mechanisms.

Chlorogenic acid inhibits the glucose-6-phosphatase enzyme that stimulates glycogenolysis and gluconeogenesis. As discussed earlier, excessive activity of this enzyme contributes to dangerous after-meal blood sugar spikes and high blood glucose levels between meals.

Chlorogenic acid directly inhibits glucose absorption from the intestinal tract. Studies show that coffee with a high chlorogenic acid content delays intestinal glucose absorption.59

In a clinical trial presented in 2011, researchers gave different dosages of standardized green coffee bean extract, each containing 50% chlorogenic acid, to 56 people. Next, they gave the participants 100 grams of glucose in an oral glucose challenge test. The oral glucose tolerance test is a standard method of gauging an individual’s response to after-meal sugar exposure.

Blood sugar levels dropped by an increasingly greater amount as the test dosage of green coffee bean extract was raised, from 100 mg up to 400 mg. At the 400 mg dosage, there was a full 32% decrease in blood sugar—two hours after glucose ingestion."

 

[Weasel]

I found this article interesting..........

Suppress Deadly After-Meal Blood Sugar Surges
http://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2012/2/Suppress-Deadly-After-Meal-Blood-Sugar-Surges/Page-01

Green Coffee Bean Extract - Chlorogenic Acid Combats Excess Glucose

"One team of researchers found that the risk of developing diabetes itself was increased more than seven-fold in people with fasting glucose levels of 105-109 mg/dL, compared with people with fasting glucose levels less than 85 mg/dL.

An analysis of 1,800 maturing individuals revealed that coronary artery disease rates over a 10-year period in individuals currently defined as "pre-diabetic" were nearly identical to those with full-blown diabetes.

A similar analysis of 33,230 men found that high glucose within the "normal" range was independently associated with a 38% increase in deaths from digestive tract cancers.

These results underscore the critical need to redefine diabetes as fasting glucose above 85 mg/dL.

Compelling new data reveal that the chlorogenic acid content in coffee is primarily responsible for its glucose-lowering effects via several interesting mechanisms.

Chlorogenic acid inhibits the glucose-6-phosphatase enzyme that stimulates glycogenolysis and gluconeogenesis. As discussed earlier, excessive activity of this enzyme contributes to dangerous after-meal blood sugar spikes and high blood glucose levels between meals.

Chlorogenic acid directly inhibits glucose absorption from the intestinal tract. Studies show that coffee with a high chlorogenic acid content delays intestinal glucose absorption.59

In a clinical trial presented in 2011, researchers gave different dosages of standardized green coffee bean extract, each containing 50% chlorogenic acid, to 56 people. Next, they gave the participants 100 grams of glucose in an oral glucose challenge test. The oral glucose tolerance test is a standard method of gauging an individual’s response to after-meal sugar exposure.

Blood sugar levels dropped by an increasingly greater amount as the test dosage of green coffee bean extract was raised, from 100 mg up to 400 mg. At the 400 mg dosage, there was a full 32% decrease in blood sugar—two hours after glucose ingestion."

Most excellent! Thank you.

I've also read similar articles on berberine.

 

[dnfuss]

Most excellent! Thank you.

I've also read similar articles on berberine.

There are no magic solutions to reducing blood sugars.

Berberine is not something to fool around with. It does seem to work to some degree, but it may do so by affecting your liver in potentially dangerous ways. It has not undergone the rigorous testing process to which all FDA-approved prescription drugs are subjected, much less evaluated for adverse side effects after years of prescribed use (see, e.g., sulfonylurea drugs (increased likelihood of heart attack), the incretin drugs (can damage the pancreas), and Avandia and Actos (can cause severe osteoporosis)). The near-unanimous view of responsible clinicians, which I share, is that berberine currently should not be prescribed for the treatment of diabetes or pre-diabetes.

Similarly, green coffee bean extract to my knowledge has not been subjected to any placebo-controlled double-blind peer-reviewed studies as to efficacy in management of either fasting or post-prandial serum glucose, the first real step in the process. There have been some interesting results presented at conferences based on some very small observational studies (usually funded by the manufacturer of the green coffee extract used in the study). The one cited in the article was conducted in India on only about 30 subjects, a very small sample size. They were not diabetic, and the protocol was to administer green coffee extract and note serum glucose levels following an oral glucose tolerance test. Interesting data to initiate further investigation, but hardly a statistically significant clinical demonstration of green coffee extract as safe and effective for controlling blood sugar among diabetics or pre-diabetics in the real world.

Where I do agree with the referenced article is in its cautions that prediabetes is associated with cardiovascular and other disease rates similar to those with diabetes and should be taken seriously.

 

[MarkM]

There are no magic solutions to reducing blood sugars.

Similarly, green coffee bean extract to my knowledge has not been subjected to any placebo-controlled double-blind peer-reviewed studies as to efficacy in management of either fasting or post-prandial serum glucose, the first real step in the process. There have been some interesting results presented at conferences based on some very small observational studies (usually funded by the manufacturer of the green coffee extract used in the study). The one cited in the article was conducted in India on only about 30 subjects, a very small sample size. They were not diabetic, and the protocol was to administer green coffee extract and note serum glucose levels following an oral glucose tolerance test. Interesting data to initiate further investigation, but hardly a statistically significant clinical demonstration of green coffee extract as safe and effective for controlling blood sugar among diabetics or pre-diabetics in the real world.

Where I do agree with the referenced article is in its cautions that prediabetes is associated with cardiovascular and other disease rates similar to those with diabetes and should be taken seriously.

Agreed that further studies need to be completed in large placebo-controlled double-blind peer-reviewed studies.

Roles of Chlorogenic Acid on Regulating Glucose and Lipids Metabolism: A Review
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3766985/

6. Conclusion
"Accumulating research and studies, related with the role of CGA on glucose and lipid metabolism, have been conducted. While progress has been made, the mechanism on glucose and lipid metabolism has not yet been conclusively elucidated. The side effects of CGA have not yet been investigated comprehensively. Further research is required to elucidate both the short- and long-term effects of CGA on glucose and lipid metabolism. It is hoped that research concerning the mechanism of action of CGA on glucose and lipid metabolism will be developed in the future, and that information on the potential clinical applications of CGA will increase."

So as dnfuss stated, some interesting data and information but more conclusive data is still required.