Testosterone plus Nandrolone = Estrogen overload?

[DixieWrecked]

If you go to 13:30 Steve talks about taking test and nandrolone together and that nandrolone is a cofactor that helps test to aromatize into Estrogen. He states that these two together is basically aromatization hyperdrive. I looked for studies on this but have nothing. Anyone know anything about this?


I never got bloodwork when I tried nandrolone but I felt like crap and my nipples were inflamed and I quit after a really fast trial. Maybe this is why I hated it.

 

[Vince]

No, my estrogen was not higher.

Estradiol, Sensitive 25.3 pg/mL range 8.0-35.0

My First Labs With Nandrolone

My protocol, 70 mg of nandrolone, 70 mg of testosterone cypionate and 1000 mg of hcg weekly. I inject 20 mg of nandrolone EOD, 20 mg of testosterone EOD and 500 iu of hcg twice a week. Pregnenolone 10 mg, 25 mg of DHEA and no AI. Labs are from LabCorp. Testosterone, Serum >1500 H ng/dL...

www.excelmale.com

 

[Vince]

Estradiol, Sensitive 24.0 pg/mL range 8.0-35.0

My Most Recent Labs.

My protocol, 16 mg of testosterone cypionate daily, 500 iu of hcg twice weekly and no AI. Pregnenolone 10 mg and 25 mg of DHEA. My last injection before labs, about 28 hr.s. Labs are from LabCorp. Testosterone, Serum 1319 ng/dL range 264-916 Free Testosterone 47.9 ng/dL range...

www.excelmale.com

 

[Gman86]

Ya I watched that video. He’s on the right track. I’ve been following Taeian Clark for a few years now, and am part of his private fb group where the guys are all about nandrolone only cycles. Taeian has done more research into nandrolone than anyone else u’ll find. Not saying everything he says is 100% correct, but there’s nobody out there that has done more research on this one compound than him. He’s been obsessed with it for years. Anyways, he says that nandrolone sensitizes the estrogen and prolactin receptors, so even tho ur E2 and prolactin levels wont go up in ur blood work, whatever E2 and prolactin u have in ur system will be more potent and u’ll feel the effects of these hormones more, again due to ur receptors being more sensitive to the hormones in ur system

 

[DixieWrecked]

Ya I watched that video. He’s on the right track. I’ve been following Taeian Clark for a few years now, and am part of his private fb group where the guys are all about nandrolone only cycles. Taeian has done more research into nandrolone than anyone else u’ll find. Not saying everything he says is 100% correct, but there’s nobody out there that has done more research on this one compound than him. He’s been obsessed with it for years. Anyways, he says that nandrolone sensitizes the estrogen and prolactin receptors, so even tho ur E2 and prolactin levels wont go up in ur blood work, whatever E2 and prolactin u have in ur system will be more potent and u’ll feel the effects of these hormones more, again due to ur receptors being more sensitive to the hormones in ur system

Synthetic 19-nortestosterone derivatives as estrogen receptor alpha subtype-selective ligands induce similar receptor conformational changes and steroid receptor coactivator recruitment than natural estrogens - PubMed

The binding of estradiol (E(2)) to estrogen receptors (ER) is followed by conformational changes resulting in coactivator or corepressor recruitment that influences gene transcription. A series of synthetic A-ring reduced 19-nortestosterone-derived progestins has the capacity to selectively bind...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This seems to support what you are saying.

 

[madman]

If you go to 13:30 Steve talks about taking test and nandrolone together and that nandrolone is a cofactor that helps test to aromatize into Estrogen. He states that these two together is basically aromatization hyperdrive. I looked for studies on this but have nothing. Anyone know anything about this?


I NEVER got bloodwork when I tried nandrolone but I felt like crap and my nipples were inflamed and I quit after a REALLY FAST trial. Maybe this is why I hated it.

I NEVER got bloodwork when I tried nandrolone but I felt like crap and my nipples were inflamed and I quit after a REALLY FAST trial

Hope you understand that blood levels from ND will take longer to stabilize than blood levels from the T due to the decanoate ester.


taking test and nandrolone together and that nandrolone is a cofactor that helps test to aromatize into Estrogen. He states that these two together is basically aromatization hyperdrive

When using/abusing high doses of ND with higher doses of T.....sure.

A therapeutic dose of T (100-200 mg/week) combined with a therapeutic dose of ND (50-100 mg/week).....highly doubt there would be any significant impact.

Many on trt running higher-end levels that end up struggling with e2 related sides may choose to switch over to a low dose T <100 mg/week and add in ND 100-150 mg/week protocol.

Even then many are using a therapeutic dose of T 100-200 mg/week and adding in a therapeutic dose of ND 50-100 mg/week to combat joint/bone pain.

Rare that anyone following such protocols using therapeutic doses of T+ND is running into issues with the so-called aromatization hyperdrive!

Are there outliers such as the men that are genetically prone to gynecomastia that is overly sensitive to a T+ND (therapeutic doses) protocol.....seems rare.

*Progestins also augment the stimulatory effect of estrogens on mammary tissue growth. There appears to be a strong synergy between these two hormones here, such that gynecomastia might even occur with the help of progestins, without excessive estrogen levels.




Testosterone with Nandrolone is considered to be one of the most fundamental 2-drug combination stacks. Nandrolone compliments the androgenic base of testosterone by supplementing additional anabolic activity without strong estrogenicity. The resulting stack is almost as productive as a cycle utilizing a higher dose of testosterone alone but less problematic in terms of estrogenic side effects such as water retention, gynecomastia, and fat buildup. Estrogen conversion is still formidable enough to warrant the use of an estrogen maintenance drug, however, and this stack remains in the realm of mass building instead of lean mass or cutting.


Nandrolone Decanoate

Side Effects (Estrogenic):

Nandrolone has a low tendency for estrogen conversion, estimated to be only about 20% of that seen with testosterone.434 This is because while the liver can convert nandrolone to estradiol, in other more active sites of steroid aromatization such as adipose tissue nandrolone is far less open to this process.435 Consequently, estrogen-related side effects are a much lower concern with this drug than with testosterone.

Elevated estrogen levels may still be noticed with higher dosing, however, and may cause side effects such as increased water retention, body fat gain, and gynecomastia. An anti-estrogen such as clomiphene citrate or tamoxifen citrate may be necessary to prevent estrogenic side effects if they occur. One may alternately use an aromatase inhibitor like Arimidex® (anastrozole), which more efficiently controls estrogen by preventing its synthesis. Aromatase inhibitors can be quite expensive in comparison to anti-estrogens, however, and may also have negative effects on blood lipids.

It is of note that nandrolone has some activity as a progestin in the body.436 Although progesterone is a c-19 steroid, removal of this group as in 19-norprogesterone creates a
hormone with greater binding affinity for its corresponding receptor. Sharing this trait, many 19-nor anabolic steroids are shown to have some affinity for the progesterone receptor as well.437 The side effects associated with progesterone are similar to those of estrogen, including negative feedback inhibition of testosterone production and enhanced rate of fat storage. Progestins also augment the stimulatory effect of estrogens on mammary tissue growth. There appears to be a strong synergy between these two hormones here, such that gynecomastia might even occur with the help of progestins, without excessive estrogen levels. The use of an antiestrogen, which inhibits the estrogenic component of this disorder, is often sufficient to mitigate gynecomastia caused by nandrolone.

 

[madman]

Ya I watched that video. He’s on the right track. I’ve been following Taeian Clark for a few years now, and am part of his private fb group where the guys are all about nandrolone only cycles. Taeian has done more research into nandrolone than anyone else u’ll find. Not saying everything he says is 100% correct, but there’s nobody out there that has done more research on this one compound than him. He’s been obsessed with it for years. Anyways, he says that nandrolone sensitizes the estrogen and prolactin receptors, so even tho ur E2 and prolactin levels wont go up in ur blood work, whatever E2 and prolactin u have in ur system will be more potent and u’ll feel the effects of these hormones more, again due to ur receptors being more sensitive to the hormones in ur system

Really.....LMFAO!

You might wanna look up who William Llewellyn is.

 

[DixieWrecked]

Madman you ever tried a 100/100 split of test/ND or something similar? Any personal antidote?

I like how the gym feels and the way I look on 200mg of T but everything else sucks. I know it's cheesy but I'm just being real. Seems like a 100/100 split may be a good way to go and make my joints feel good too.

Also what is the decanoate ester half life? I've read 1 week but also have read 2 weeks

 

[madman]

Madman you ever tried a 100/100 split of test/ND or something similar? Any personal antidote?

I like how the gym feels and the way I look on 200mg of T but everything else sucks. I know it's cheesy but I'm just being real. Seems like a 100/100 split may be a good way to go and make my joints feel good too.

Also what is the decanoate ester half life? I've read 1 week but also have read 2 weeks

When using trt doses.....no.

If you feel good overall, blood markers are healthy, minus any sides then the higher-end trt dose of 200 mg T/week may suit you best if your goal is maximizing body composition.

If you are struggling with sides (most likely looking over your previous threads/posts) then it would be more sensible to run a lower FT level and if you find that running a lower FT level does not give you the kick that 200mg T/week does when it comes to body composition you could easily try 100 mg T + 100 mg ND.

Much less chance of sides let alone you will still derive some of the anabolic potentials from the ND and top it all off that your joints may thank you later!

Plasma half-life ND 6-7 days.

 

[DS3]

Ya I watched that video. He’s on the right track. I’ve been following Taeian Clark for a few years now, and am part of his private fb group where the guys are all about nandrolone only cycles. Taeian has done more research into nandrolone than anyone else u’ll find. Not saying everything he says is 100% correct, but there’s nobody out there that has done more research on this one compound than him. He’s been obsessed with it for years. Anyways, he says that nandrolone sensitizes the estrogen and prolactin receptors, so even tho ur E2 and prolactin levels wont go up in ur blood work, whatever E2 and prolactin u have in ur system will be more potent and u’ll feel the effects of these hormones more, again due to ur receptors being more sensitive to the hormones in ur system

He’s also an idiot.

 

[bixt]

I have to agree, Taeian is an idiot.

Plenty threads on plenty pro BB boards with the reasonings of seasoned BBers, many of which have tried such things.

If you want your pecker to permanently fail, just experiment with one of his ND only cycles. See what happens AFTER the cycle.

 

[Gman86]

Idk, there’s a bunch of guys in his private fb group that seem to be doing well using his advice, and then guys that don’t seem to do well he offers pretty good advice on how to go about correcting the issue. Not saying I agree with everything he says, but he has a lot of interesting ideas on diet, hair loss and obv how to go about successfully doing short cycles of nandrolone only, or nandrolone only with specific compounds that will help with too low of E2.

It’s a private fb group, so I can see why guys would have a lot of issue outside of that group that hear about part of what he recommends, without getting all the tiny details/ advice from him that are necessary for his protocols to work properly.

I personally wouldn’t ever do a nandrolone only cycle, but until ur in his private fb group, and really see what things are about, I don’t think it’s fair to say that he’s an idiot, per sey

 

[tareload]

Seriously Guys, you'd have to be a MEAN bastard to recommend an ND-only protocol (I'm not using the term HRT since there's a miniscule amount of Nandrolone you may be "replacing") even to your worst enemy.

 

[Gman86]

Seriously Guys, you'd have to be a MEAN bastard to recommend an ND-only protocol (I'm not using the term HRT since there's a miniscule amount of Nandrolone you may be "replacing") even to your worst enemy.

I don’t think anyone here is recommending that lol

 

[Fortunate]

Seriously Guys, you'd have to be a MEAN bastard to recommend an ND-only protocol (I'm not using the term HRT since there's a miniscule amount of Nandrolone you may be "replacing") even to your worst enemy.

Thoughts on a 1:1 protocol? I briefly gave deca a small run. Considering it again, primarily to test my hypothesis that most of the unpleasant side effects I get from TRT is related to metabolites.

Also, to those using nandrolone, are you using hCG?

 

[Gman86]

Thoughts on a 1:1 protocol? I briefly gave deca a small run. Considering it again, primarily to test my hypothesis that most of the unpleasant side effects I get from TRT is related to metabolites.

Also, to those using nandrolone, are you using hCG?

I have a lot of saved anecdotes of guys doing really well using a 1:1 ratio. Almost as many as I have saved of guys doing really well on a 2:1 test:nandrolone ratio. More anecdotes of guys using a 2:1 ratio, but not many more. What was ur protocol when u tried nandrolone?

 

[Fortunate]

I have a lot of saved anecdotes of guys doing really well using a 1:1 ratio. Almost as many as I have saved of guys doing really well on a 2:1 test:nandrolone ratio. More anecdotes of guys using a 2:1 ratio, but not many more. What was ur protocol when u tried nandrolone?

I did not use it long enough to really even call it a protocol. I think I did a slightly higher dose of nandrolone compared with testosterone. Only did it for less than a week.

 

[bixt]

I personally will never try nandrolone. Too many anecdotes from people I know who have suffered either or both 1. Libido loss 2. "Numb penis" yet have libido (desire).

To me, deca dick seems to be neurological, affecting the dopamine reward circuitry. The elevated prolactin is just a side effect of the lowered dopamine in a depressed brain. Long after nandrolone containing cycles are done, protactin normalised, all hormones in range, the ED / and or loss of libido persists. All the estrogen/prolactin/DHN theories then can get thrown out the window. Sure caber / DHT (masteron) may temporarily help by raising dopamine, but anything that raises dopamine will for a while....hell, cocaine will probably help too.

Nandrolone is a toxic neuro steroid and theres no way in hell im touching it. Whats poison in moderate amounts is poison in small amounts too. As far as the neuro effects go.

 

[Vince]

3 Reasons for "Deca D*ck"

3 Reasons for "Deca D*ck" the whole video is only 19:32 min long A physician’s analysis of Deca Durabolin (nandrolone decanoate) and its erectile dysfunction side effect, well known as “deca dick.” I’ve identified 3 mechanisms that cause "deca dick," and also cover deca’s other side effects...

www.excelmale.com

 

[DixieWrecked]

I personally will never try nandrolone. Too many anecdotes from people I know who have suffered either or both 1. Libido loss 2. "Numb penis" yet have libido (desire).

To me, deca dick seems to be neurological, affecting the dopamine reward circuitry. The elevated prolactin is just a side effect of the lowered dopamine in a depressed brain. Long after nandrolone containing cycles are done, protactin normalised, all hormones in range, the ED / and or loss of libido persists. All the estrogen/prolactin/DHN theories then can get thrown out the window. Sure caber / DHT (masteron) may temporarily help by raising dopamine, but anything that raises dopamine will for a while....hell, cocaine will probably help too.

Nandrolone is a toxic neuro steroid and theres no way in hell im touching it. Whats poison in moderate amounts is poison in small amounts too. As far as the neuro effects go.

Your antidote about poison is inaccurate. The dose makes the poison a vast majority of the time. Hell, we even have arsenic in our bodies.