Stopping TRT protocol

[BillyJ03z]

I have been researching how to stop TRT and I came across a video on Youtube which states the following:

1) Stop the Testosterone and give it time for the esters to clear the system
2) Start HCG for about 6 weeks and test labs to see if LH/FSH is getting stimulated
3) If LH/FSH stimulated then jump on Tamoxifen for additional 6 weeks until Test Levels are raised to acceptable levels

Does this sound accurate? Also, what doses of HCG and Tamoxifen?

 

[Cataceous]

Keep in mind that some guys quit TRT cold turkey without suffering too much. It's assumed that restart protocols can ease the transition, but I don't think there's much quantification of this. I think a more sensible protocol would have you taking hCG for some weeks prior to stopping the exogenous testosterone. Then when you stop the testosterone you would add a SERM, with enclomiphene being preferred. After a few weeks of hCG plus SERM you'd taper off the hCG, and then taper off the SERM. The problem with using hCG alone is that—depending on the dose—it can keep your HPTA suppressed, which then slows or stops the restart. I don't see much point in a washout period during which you don't take anything.

A restart protocol from Defy Medical a couple years ago goes like this:

• Discontinue testosterone
• Start 300 IU hCG daily for 2 weeks
• Stop hCG, start 25 mg enclomiphene daily for 6 weeks
• 0.125 mg anastrozole three times per week during both hCG and enclomiphene
• Stop everything, followup labs with CBC, TT, FT E2, LH, SHBG, PRL

More of academic interest is the theoretical possibility of doing a complete HPTA restart before even stopping TRT. In this scenario, to the TRT protocol one would add doses of a SERM, kisspeptin-10, gonadorelin and hCG. After some period of time all of the medications would be tapered. The idea is that kisspeptin-10 encourages endogenous production of GnRH, while gonadorelin encourages production of LH and FSH. Meanwhile hCG is signaling the gonads to start producing testosterone. The SERM encourages the upstream activity by decreasing negative feedback from estrogens. This may also help to restart endogenous production of kisspeptin.

 

[BillyJ03z]

Keep in mind that some guys quit TRT cold turkey without suffering too much. It's assumed that restart protocols can ease the transition, but I don't think there's much quantification of this. I think a more sensible protocol would have you taking hCG for some weeks prior to stopping the exogenous testosterone. Then when you stop the testosterone you would add a SERM, with enclomiphene being preferred. After a few weeks of hCG plus SERM you'd taper off the hCG, and then taper off the SERM. The problem with using hCG alone is that—depending on the dose—it can keep your HPTA suppressed, which then slows or stops the restart. I don't see much point in a washout period during which you don't take anything.

A restart protocol from Defy Medical a couple years ago goes like this:

• Discontinue testosterone
• Start 300 IU hCG daily for 2 weeks
• Stop hCG, start 25 mg enclomiphene daily for 6 weeks
• 0.125 mg anastrozole three times per week during both hCG and enclomiphene
• Stop everything, followup labs with CBC, TT, FT E2, LH, SHBG, PRL

More of academic interest is the theoretical possibility of doing a complete HPTA restart before even stopping TRT. In this scenario, to the TRT protocol one would add doses of a SERM, kisspeptin-10, gonadorelin and hCG. After some period of time all of the medications would be tapered. The idea is that kisspeptin-10 encourages endogenous production of GnRH, while gonadorelin encourages production of LH and FSH. Meanwhile hCG is signaling the gonads to start producing testosterone. The SERM encourages the upstream activity by decreasing negative feedback from estrogens. This may also help to restart endogenous production of kisspeptin.

I've been on TRT for 12 plus years so I don't think stopping cold turkey would be good for me in my case....

So should I do the following:
1) Start HCG @ 300 IU EOD while still on TRT for about 4 weeks
2) Stop TRT and now take HCG @ 300 IU ED for about 4-6 weeks
3) Stop HCG and start Tamoxifen or Clomid for about 4-6 weeks
***take ADEX @ .125 3xWK during entire protocol
4) Stop everything and followup with Labs....

THANKS1

 

[Cataceous]

I think that's a viable protocol. If I were doing it I might add the SERM and then taper the hCG over at least a couple weeks. This is one point where an abrupt transition could lead to low testosterone. On the other hand, if you were already using the AI then the hypothalamus and pituitary might already be partly resuscitated. If your aromatization rate is on the low side then I'd have reservations about using an AI and a SERM at the same time. You could end up with too little estrogenic action even though serum estradiol levels might appear adequate.

 

[BillyJ03z]

I think that's a viable protocol. If I were doing it I might add the SERM and then taper the hCG over at least a couple weeks. This is one point where an abrupt transition could lead to low testosterone. On the other hand, if you were already using the AI then the hypothalamus and pituitary might already be partly resuscitated. If your aromatization rate is on the low side then I'd have reservations about using an AI and a SERM at the same time. You could end up with too little estrogenic action even though serum estradiol levels might appear adequate.

Ok... so looking at something this...

1) Start HCG @ 300 IU "ED" while still on TRT (reduce TRT dose) for about 4 weeks and take adex @ .125 3xWK during this time

2) Stop TRT.... continue HCG @ 300 IU "ED" for about 4 weeks with ADEX 3xWK... Add in SERM at 5th week and taper off HCG over next 2 weeks

3) Stop HCG.... Continue SERM (Tamoxifen or Clomid) for about 4-6 weeks

4) Stop everything and followup with Labs....

Appreciate all the help...

 

[Dicky]

Keep in mind that some guys quit TRT cold turkey without suffering too much. It's assumed that restart protocols can ease the transition, but I don't think there's much quantification of this. I think a more sensible protocol would have you taking hCG for some weeks prior to stopping the exogenous testosterone. Then when you stop the testosterone you would add a SERM, with enclomiphene being preferred. After a few weeks of hCG plus SERM you'd taper off the hCG, and then taper off the SERM. The problem with using hCG alone is that—depending on the dose—it can keep your HPTA suppressed, which then slows or stops the restart. I don't see much point in a washout period during which you don't take anything.

A restart protocol from Defy Medical a couple years ago goes like this:

• Discontinue testosterone
• Start 300 IU hCG daily for 2 weeks
• Stop hCG, start 25 mg enclomiphene daily for 6 weeks
• 0.125 mg anastrozole three times per week during both hCG and enclomiphene
• Stop everything, followup labs with CBC, TT, FT E2, LH, SHBG, PRL

What is the purpose of the AI in this protocol?

 

[Cataceous]

What is the purpose of the AI in this protocol?

Perhaps the reasoning is that both hCG and enclomiphene can raise estradiol, which in turn slows the restart via negative feedback. So the AI could be a preemptive strike against that.

 

[tareload]

What is the purpose of the AI in this protocol?

Read this chapter.

Chapter 12 - Hypothalamo-Pituitary Unit, Testis, and Male Accessory Organs​

Hypothalamo-Pituitary Unit, Testis, and Male Accessory Organs

The function of the hypothalamo-pituitary-testicular-accessory organ axis is to ensure normal androgenization (including embryonic, infantile, puberta…

www.sciencedirect.com

From

Yen & Jaffe's Reproductive Endocrinology

Now celebrating its 40th anniversary, Yen & Jaffe’s Reproductive Endocrinology, 8th Edition, by Drs. Jerome F. Strauss III, Robert L. Barbieri, and An...

www.sciencedirect.com

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That was my thinking (more info here for interested folks). I'm all ears if you thought of anything else. I've got plenty of anastrozole on hand and did a few weeks of 0.5 mg twice weekly the first time I went off hCG monotherapy. I tolerated it well (it was a very short course) and I'm glad I tried and got blood work with both hCG and AI monotherapy prior to starting TRT. Confirmed to me that any T shortfall I had was secondary not primary. Of course this "deficiency" probably wasn't a deficiency. Live and learn.

Male Endocrine Dysfunction

www.sciencedirect.com

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[Systemlord]

I stopped TRT cold turkey after 2 and a half years and once the cypionate was out of my system my natural production was back in 4 and a half weeks. The last week there was some fatigue, loose joints but nothing that I would call serious.