Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
I no longer take it. Too much water retention and hunger (and belly weight gain).
It was abandoned by Merck for a reason.
It was abandoned by Merck for a reason.
Oral growth hormone enhancer MK-677 (ibutamoren)
- Thread starter Nelson Vergel
- Start date
Dr Justin Saya MD
Moderator
I don't currently prescribe to my general patient base (as non-FDA approved), though have monitored over a dozen patients whom are/have taken it. Have seen mixed results, as I noted previously (either here or elsewhere...can't recall specifically). Have noticed better sleep, somewhat enhanced cognition in some (perhaps due to the better sleep, but this is expected with most any true GH enhancer). Unfortunately, have also seen a few suspected cases of early insulin resistance (or perhaps more appropriately reduced insulin sensitivity) with increase in hemoglobin A1C and increase in fasting blood sugar and fasting insulin (likely due to the ghrelin/hunger effect).
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
I am curious about combining Metformin plus ibutamoren. Metformin decreases insulin resistance and IGF-1 while ibutamoren increases insulin resistance and IGF-1. I may try this combo.
Sean Reed
Banned
Actually, it was abandoned because Merck changed its focus to a more profitable anti-depressant.
This is my first post. I ran across this site because I was searching for a prescription source for MK-677.
Nelson, like you I live close to Houston, Sugar Land to be precise.
I also use Empower (prescription from Dr. Lipschultz) however the price is $145 for a 30 day supply.
I have been using MK-677 because my natural GH as measured by IGF-1, is low 70 ng/ml. ...don't believe those who say IGF-1 is not the best measure of GH, it is. Even for an old man like me that is low. I use MK-677 to adjust my GH to high normal.
I had a very reliable source, but that source is gone. Therefore I was going to buy from Empower.
MK-677 is a godsend (although it does cause me to sleep eat). Low GH is UNHEALTHY. High normal is healthy.
Empowers' price is high, so I am looking for a better priced source. I have a prescription.
In any event, thanks for the informative posts. I think I may like it here.
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
Ibutamoren (MK-677) – Top 9 Health Benefits and Side Effects[FONT="]Ibutamoren is a substance that is associated with more discussions on online forums than actual clinical research. However, the research so far does support several benefits of ibutamoren, associated with its ability to increase growth hormone and IGF-1 levels. Read on to find out what these benefits are, whether ibutamoren can help you, and how to deal with potential side effects.
[/FONT]
[FONT="]Contents [hide][/FONT]
- Introduction
- Health Benefits of Ibutamoren
- 1) Ibutamoren Helps Build Muscles
- 2) Ibutamoren Reduce Muscle Wasting
- 3) Ibutamoren Increases Bone Density
- 4) Ibutamoren Improves Sleep
- 5) Ibutamoren Combats Aging and May Increase Longevity
- 6) Ibutamoren May Have Nootropic Effects
- 7) Ibutamoren is Beneficial in Treating Growth Hormone Deficiency
- 8) Ibutamoren May Help with Wound Healing and Tissue Regeneration
- 9) Ibutamoren May Help with Hangovers
- Side Effects
- Genetics Affecting Responses to Ibutamoren
[/FONT]
Sean Reed
Banned
Nelson: You have posted up some of the many benefits of MK-677. It really is a bit of a miracle drug.
The problem is, yes there are some sides and yes you have to run it a long time. However, the benefits far outweigh the sides.
You may only gain 5 lbs of muscle over 6 months, but remember, that muscle is PERMANENT, unlike steroid/test gains. For us that have low normal GH it is a Godsend.
I wanted to address one point: Water retention. Yes, it causes that, but the gain can actually be beneficial.
Water retention increases strength, dramatically. You will left heavier weights/get more reps and thus get more gains. As a result you will gain more muscle. Also, the pumps are tremendous, Like a combination of Anavar and test.
I run what some people consider to be an excessively high dose of testosterone, 300 mgs/week. However, every 3 months I take a month off (using HCG). During that period I continue MK-677 so I continue to get good pumps and gratifying training.
Testosterone and MK-677 are really all you need to combat the effects of aging.
The problem is, yes there are some sides and yes you have to run it a long time. However, the benefits far outweigh the sides.
You may only gain 5 lbs of muscle over 6 months, but remember, that muscle is PERMANENT, unlike steroid/test gains. For us that have low normal GH it is a Godsend.
I wanted to address one point: Water retention. Yes, it causes that, but the gain can actually be beneficial.
Water retention increases strength, dramatically. You will left heavier weights/get more reps and thus get more gains. As a result you will gain more muscle. Also, the pumps are tremendous, Like a combination of Anavar and test.
I run what some people consider to be an excessively high dose of testosterone, 300 mgs/week. However, every 3 months I take a month off (using HCG). During that period I continue MK-677 so I continue to get good pumps and gratifying training.
Testosterone and MK-677 are really all you need to combat the effects of aging.
Sean- I'm curious as to the thought process on this protocol. Not judging, just trying to understand. I rarely see a "cycling off" of TRT. Everyone is different but for me HCG mono shot my E2 into the 90's. Does the MK-677 have anything to do with the cycle protocol?
Vince Carter
Banned
He's not doing TRT, that's for sure so take it with a grain of salt.
Just thought I would chime in here... I have been taking 10 mg of MK677 for the past month. My appetite has increased but for me that's a good thing because I tend to be on the slim side and its helping me gain some good muscle weight. Other things I have noticed: My dreams are way more vivid and intense, I feel generally stronger and more grounded, in week three my libido got stronger than it has been in many, many years, and finally, I am beginning to feel like I have more physical endurance than before I started.
I will say that the first week or two I was extremely bloated and tired and I almost quit taking it. The bloat has subsided but the tiredness is still there, though not as bad as it was.
I will say that the first week or two I was extremely bloated and tired and I almost quit taking it. The bloat has subsided but the tiredness is still there, though not as bad as it was.
GreenMachineX
Well-Known Member
Has anyone noticed this effects their blood pressure?
im considering trying this to aid in physical therapy for my injured rotator cuffs (1 partially torn and 1 tendinosis).
im considering trying this to aid in physical therapy for my injured rotator cuffs (1 partially torn and 1 tendinosis).
molonlabedoc
Member
How has your experience been as of late? I took ghrp2, and 6, from a legitimate source for almost five years. That source dried up. I'm fascinated with this.
fitnessguy
Member
Do you need a perscription for MK677? Does it have any liver toxicity? How would guys compare it to Somerllin?
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
Ibutamoren is more effective than Sermorelin and most GHRP's in increasing IGF-1.
It can increase glucose, prolactin and cortisol. It can increase appetite and weight gain. Studies were done in older men and women who did not exercise and they gained equal amounts of lean and fat mass.
I took it and could not stop eating. It seems that appetite normalizes after 2 weeks. Some of my friends stopped it since they did not like how they felt on it. I felt OK but stopped it due to water retention.
Go back to page one of this thread and read all background info
It can increase glucose, prolactin and cortisol. It can increase appetite and weight gain. Studies were done in older men and women who did not exercise and they gained equal amounts of lean and fat mass.
I took it and could not stop eating. It seems that appetite normalizes after 2 weeks. Some of my friends stopped it since they did not like how they felt on it. I felt OK but stopped it due to water retention.
Go back to page one of this thread and read all background info
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
A few slides summarizing studies.
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
A similar compound was just approved as part of a diagnostic test:
Aeterna Zentaris Announces FDA Approval of Macrilen™ (macimorelin) for Diagnosis of Adult Growth Hormone Deficiency
The FDA has approved the oral ghrelin agonist macimorelin to be used in the diagnosis of patients with adult growth hormone deficiency, according to a press release from Aeterna Zentaris.
Macimorelin (Macrilen) will be used to stimulate the secretion of GH from the pituitary gland into the circulatory system.
From the ENDO 2017 Conference
Abstract: LB SUN 59
[h=4]Validation of Macimorelin As a Diagnostic Test for Adult Growth Hormone Deficiency (AGHD): A Phase 3 Study in Comparison with the Insulin Tolerance Test (ITT)[/b]
INTRODUCTION: The diagnosis of adult GH deficiency (AGHD) is challenging. Since GH is secreted in pulses, random measurements of GH levels will not reliably distinguish GH-deficient from GH-sufficient subjects. Accordingly, the diagnosis of AGHD often depends on GH stimulation tests (GHST) using agents known to provoke GH release above a certain level in healthy people to determine the maximum GH level in patients suspected of having the disorder. Currently, the insulin tolerance test (ITT) is considered the non-reference standard GHST and the glucagon stimulation test an alternative. Other GHSTs are either not available in the US or considered to have low accuracy. Macimorelin, a potent orally active GH secretagogue (GHS), could be used to assess for AGHD by measuring the stimulated GH levels after an oral dose.
METHODS: This multicenter, international, open-label, randomized, 2-way crossover trial was designed to validate the use of single-dose oral macimorelin for the diagnosis of AGHD, using the ITT as the comparator test. A second objective was to characterize the safety profile of macimorelin in this setting. Subjects with high (n=38), intermediate (n=37), and low (n=40) likelihood for AGHD and healthy, matched controls (n=25) were enrolled in the study. The cut-off values for stimulated GH levels measured by the IDS-Isys hGH assay were 2.8 ng/mL for macimorelin test and 5.1 ng/mL for the ITT based on previously published data1,2. In addition, a subset of patients (n=34) underwent the macimorelin test twice to evaluate the reproducibility of this test.
RESULTS: A total of 157 subjects were enrolled in the study: 93 (59%) males, 64 (41%) females, 135 (86%) whites, with a median age of 41 years (18–66 years) and a median BMI of 27.5 kg/m2 (17 – 40 kg/m2). After the first test, 99% of macimorelin tests and 82% of ITTs were evaluable. Negative agreement was 93.94% (confidence interval [CI] 85.20% - 98.32%) and positive agreement was 74.32% (CI 62.84% - 83.78%) between macimorelin and the ITT. Sensitivity was 87% (CI 72-96%), specificity was 96% (CI 80-100%) and reproducibility was 94% for macimorelin. Posthoc analyses showed that a cut-off point for macimorelin between 4.6 ng/mL and 8.2 ng/mL would have resulted in optimal negative and positive agreement with the ITT and in optimal sensitivity and specificity for the macimorelin test. No serious adverse events (SAE) were reported for macimorelin, one case of a broken arm was reported after an ITT. Other non-SAE were more common and of greater severity during ITT than macimorelin.
CONCLUSIONS: GH stimulation with the oral ghrelin mimetic macimorelin is a simple, well-tolerated, reproducible and safe diagnostic test for AGHD, with comparable accuracy to that of the ITT. Increasing the cut-off point for the macimorelin test above its pre-specified value may be justified by the more potent GH stimulatory effect of macimorelin compared to the ITT.
Slides here
Aeterna Zentaris Announces FDA Approval of Macrilen™ (macimorelin) for Diagnosis of Adult Growth Hormone Deficiency
The FDA has approved the oral ghrelin agonist macimorelin to be used in the diagnosis of patients with adult growth hormone deficiency, according to a press release from Aeterna Zentaris.
Macimorelin (Macrilen) will be used to stimulate the secretion of GH from the pituitary gland into the circulatory system.
From the ENDO 2017 Conference
Abstract: LB SUN 59
[h=4]Validation of Macimorelin As a Diagnostic Test for Adult Growth Hormone Deficiency (AGHD): A Phase 3 Study in Comparison with the Insulin Tolerance Test (ITT)[/b]
INTRODUCTION: The diagnosis of adult GH deficiency (AGHD) is challenging. Since GH is secreted in pulses, random measurements of GH levels will not reliably distinguish GH-deficient from GH-sufficient subjects. Accordingly, the diagnosis of AGHD often depends on GH stimulation tests (GHST) using agents known to provoke GH release above a certain level in healthy people to determine the maximum GH level in patients suspected of having the disorder. Currently, the insulin tolerance test (ITT) is considered the non-reference standard GHST and the glucagon stimulation test an alternative. Other GHSTs are either not available in the US or considered to have low accuracy. Macimorelin, a potent orally active GH secretagogue (GHS), could be used to assess for AGHD by measuring the stimulated GH levels after an oral dose.
METHODS: This multicenter, international, open-label, randomized, 2-way crossover trial was designed to validate the use of single-dose oral macimorelin for the diagnosis of AGHD, using the ITT as the comparator test. A second objective was to characterize the safety profile of macimorelin in this setting. Subjects with high (n=38), intermediate (n=37), and low (n=40) likelihood for AGHD and healthy, matched controls (n=25) were enrolled in the study. The cut-off values for stimulated GH levels measured by the IDS-Isys hGH assay were 2.8 ng/mL for macimorelin test and 5.1 ng/mL for the ITT based on previously published data1,2. In addition, a subset of patients (n=34) underwent the macimorelin test twice to evaluate the reproducibility of this test.
RESULTS: A total of 157 subjects were enrolled in the study: 93 (59%) males, 64 (41%) females, 135 (86%) whites, with a median age of 41 years (18–66 years) and a median BMI of 27.5 kg/m2 (17 – 40 kg/m2). After the first test, 99% of macimorelin tests and 82% of ITTs were evaluable. Negative agreement was 93.94% (confidence interval [CI] 85.20% - 98.32%) and positive agreement was 74.32% (CI 62.84% - 83.78%) between macimorelin and the ITT. Sensitivity was 87% (CI 72-96%), specificity was 96% (CI 80-100%) and reproducibility was 94% for macimorelin. Posthoc analyses showed that a cut-off point for macimorelin between 4.6 ng/mL and 8.2 ng/mL would have resulted in optimal negative and positive agreement with the ITT and in optimal sensitivity and specificity for the macimorelin test. No serious adverse events (SAE) were reported for macimorelin, one case of a broken arm was reported after an ITT. Other non-SAE were more common and of greater severity during ITT than macimorelin.
CONCLUSIONS: GH stimulation with the oral ghrelin mimetic macimorelin is a simple, well-tolerated, reproducible and safe diagnostic test for AGHD, with comparable accuracy to that of the ITT. Increasing the cut-off point for the macimorelin test above its pre-specified value may be justified by the more potent GH stimulatory effect of macimorelin compared to the ITT.
Slides here
Pumpiniron13
New Member
I’ve used it several times.... for me the Hunger issue only last 2 weeks then I’m good!
fitnessguy
Member
How long did you use it for each time? What effects did you personally see from it? Do you have to “cycle” it on and off or did you?
Holland240
New Member
Nelson..First, thank you for the site. This is by far the most comprehensive one around with actual expert advice. I don’t have the luxury of time to weed through bs so it is appreciated.
I have read your posts. I just joined and have tried to start a thread to pose a question. In it I ran down my reg I am on and why; as well as issues. One is IGF-1 and my need for HGH. I have been through the ringer and side effects I do not need. Do you feel the peptide route can really help someone like me that has true hypoput with a serious deficit in IGF and other hormones. I know it’s just advice but here in Florida it’s not been easy to find a doc that can really help.
I have read your posts. I just joined and have tried to start a thread to pose a question. In it I ran down my reg I am on and why; as well as issues. One is IGF-1 and my need for HGH. I have been through the ringer and side effects I do not need. Do you feel the peptide route can really help someone like me that has true hypoput with a serious deficit in IGF and other hormones. I know it’s just advice but here in Florida it’s not been easy to find a doc that can really help.
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