I’ve been on 25mg Anavar daily for 2 weeks, and it’s awesome. Strength is going up during each workout. I started BPC today for a nagging back injury. I am turned off by Deca’s reported side effects
What’s the rest of ur protocol look like?
I’ve been on 25mg Anavar daily for 2 weeks, and it’s awesome. Strength is going up during each workout. I started BPC today for a nagging back injury. I am turned off by Deca’s reported side effects
40mg EOD test cyp (140mg weekly)What’s the rest of ur protocol look like?
Would you discribe your protocol? Is it still 200mg N + 60mg T /w? How is it going? Did you do bloodwork? I started Deca a 2 weeks ago, simply I want to put some muscles on. Lost a 5kg lean mass trough diet.I switched to a nandrolone based HRT protocol in February, around when gyms all closed. So haven’t been able to work legs since getting on this protocol, other than cardio, and I feel like my quads are about the same size now as they were back in February. Maybe they got slightly smaller, from not working them out, but it’s not really noticeable to me when I look down at them. If anything, seems like the nandrolone base preserved my quad muscles
And just referencing the comment above, my member has definitely not changed in size at all, I would absolutely notice that lol, and testicles seem the exact same size as they were on test cyp/ enanthate, without HCG.
40mg EOD test cyp (140mg weekly)
1mg/500mcg Tesamorelin/Ipamorelin 6 nights a week
Would you discribe your protocol? Is it still 200mg N + 60mg T /w? How is it going? Did you do bloodwork? I started Deca a 2 weeks ago, simply I want to put some muscles on. Lost a 5kg lean mass trough diet.
My problem is the following with Deca: The potential downsides (decreased HDL, cardiovascular problems) seem to be related to the lack of E2. Nelsons aproach, full replacement dose of T so 100mg/w seems reasonable to me to have high enough estrogen levels. On top of that Nandrolone. I do not see the point in getting lower.
I think there is no need for 2/1 ration T/D. I did Deca on (150mg-200mg/w) its own for 3 month last year. Everything works normal, no Erection problems. Lean mass increased, bf decreased. Libido was lower, what is per se not a bad thing. I stopped it only because I was affraid of the long term impact on cardiovascular function.
My point is I am confuesed about the ratio.
It’s $200 for 6 weeks worth (45 tabs) thru my clinic. They use Absolute Pharmacy for this
Yes it’s a capsule actuallyAnd each tab is 25mg?
Yes it’s a capsule actually
If u don’t mind me asking, how much is the 25mg of anavar costing u per month? Through Defy I’m pretty sure that would cost around $450/ month.
This is the first time I’m using rx’d anavar, and I haven’t gotten labs while on it yet. They only allow 6 weeks cycles tho, then 6 weeks off. My plan is to do labs during the final week and see what the impact is. So far I feel greatFYI...Empower had a significant price drop late last year and is competitive with numbers above and the Hoye's 100 mg troche (gone now, you could easily split). Unfortunately, oxandrolone has very non-linear dose response on HDL (7.5 mg or 50 mg per day crushes my HDL 50-70%).
View attachment 10154
You can see what a racket the retail route is below. The troche was nice as you could purchase the 100 mg troche and split and still enjoy 16 ct/mg. Empower (and Absolute, thanks @swoops36) now competitive with that in a 25 mg capsule. All theoretical of course since no one wants to crush their HDL.
Interested if your experiences...you don't have this issue or just use oxandrolone for short periods and hope for the best?
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Oh yeah as far as the price, the same amount of Var would have been $587 with goodrx, so in this case I figured my clinic was actually priced very reasonableFYI...Empower had a significant price drop late last year and is competitive with numbers above and the Hoye's 100 mg troche (gone now, you could easily split). Unfortunately, oxandrolone has very non-linear dose response on HDL (7.5 mg or 50 mg per day crushes my HDL 50-70%).
View attachment 10154
You can see what a racket the retail route is below. The troche was nice as you could purchase the 100 mg troche and split and still enjoy 16 ct/mg. Empower (and Absolute, thanks @swoops36) now competitive with that in a 25 mg capsule. All theoretical of course since no one wants to crush their HDL.
Interested if your experiences...you don't have this issue or just use oxandrolone for short periods and hope for the best?
View attachment 10155
This is the first time I’m using rx’d anavar, and I haven’t gotten labs while on it yet. They only allow 6 weeks cycles tho, then 6 weeks off. My plan is to do labs during the final week and see what the impact is. So far I feel great
No I use Rejuvenation Care Clinic in FLAre u with DefyMedical?
I’m convinced that all the studies done on deca only showing any cardiovascular issues are due to E2 being too low. I’m not worried in the least about any cardiovascular issues from using nandrolone long term. Until they prove that deca causes cardiovascular issues, and these issues aren’t related to low E2 while using deca only, I personally don’t worry about using nandrolone. I’ve looked at all these studies, and literally every single issue they’ve found from using deca only matches up to a T with the same issues men get from having too low E2. I just don’t think this can be a coincidence. So as long as I keep my E2 in a healthy range, while using nandrolone long term, I don’t worry about what the studies say even a tiny bit. Again, if they do a study showing that men using nandrolone, while having healthy E2 levels, ran into the same cardiovascular issues that have been shown in previous studies on deca only, I will definitely change my stance.
But that’s actually really interesting that u were able to run deca only at 150-200mg per week for 3 months without any issues. On that dose, I guarantee ur level of 17-beta-estradiol (the type of E2 everyone commonly rests for) was <5.
Question/concern I've got is not around quad atrophy or even anhedonia/sexual dysfunction with nandrolone. I meticulously kept my E2 on track when doing modest amounts of nandrolone (80-150 mg/week) with 60-80 mg/week of Test Cyp. Still suffered semi ED while at the same time having tremendous libido (it's quite the combo). Best I can figure is that ND works at the neurotransmitter level (brain) in helping mitigate chronic pain as opposed to an real local effect to restore joint function. It's also made me feel numb.
I digress. Concern I have is medium/long term use of nandrolone and its effect on beta-receptors / beta adrenoreceptor action in the heart. I can post the rodent models (easy to look up on google) but obviously no human data. I posted my experience over on another forum but I can tell you experiencing afib in the middle of the night is no fun and it came out of nowhere. Can I prove it was the ND? Nope. There may have been synergistic effect of TRT + T3 + T4 + prior ND + prior oxandrolone usage + HIIT + getting to the age where high intensity exercise may lead to afib. Just a word of caution if you work out hard, take testosterone, also use combination Thyroid therapy, and introduce ND, which is shown to upregulate beta receptor activity in the heart of mammals. Do you have pre-existing arrhythmia?
With the uptick in its clinical use (and now men using ND based HRT!), I guess we'll see if more anecdotal reports pop up. I've attached a sample of articles below. Note I read all of these before trying synthetic AAS for anabolic therapy. As Mike Tyson says and I paraphrase "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."
Take care.
Effects of testosterone and nandrolone on cardiac function: A randomized, placebo-controlled study
See above, This is not something you may pick up short term on an echo or EKG. Note I ran echo/ekg prior to my first 19 week course of ND. Looked great.
Nandrolone-pretreatment enhances cardiac beta(2)-adrenoceptor expression and reverses heart contractile down-regulation in the post-stress period of acute-stressed rats
The Impact of Nandrolone Decanoate on the Central Nervous System
Effects of nandrolone and resistance training on the blood pressure, cardiac electrophysiology, and expression of atrial β-adrenergic receptors
Abstract
Aims: This study was performed to assess isolated and combined effects of nandrolone and resistance training on the blood pressure, cardiac electrophysiology, and expression of the β1- and β2-adrenergic receptors in the heart of rats.
Main methods: Wistar rats were randomly divided into four groups and submitted to a 6-week treatment with nandrolone and/or resistance training. Cardiac hypertrophy was accessed by the ratio of heart weight to the final body weight. Blood pressure was determined by a computerized tail-cuff system. Electrocardiography analyses were performed. Western blotting was used to access the protein levels of the β1- and β2-adrenergic receptors in the right atrium and left ventricle.
Key findings: Both resistance training and nandrolone induced cardiac hypertrophy. Nandrolone increased systolic blood pressure depending on the treatment time. Resistance training decreased systolic, diastolic and mean arterial blood pressure, as well as induced resting bradycardia. Nandrolone prolonged the QTc interval for both trained and non-trained groups when they were compared to their respective vehicle-treated one. Nandrolone increased the expression of β1- and β2-adrenergic receptors in the right atrium for both trained and non-trained groups when they were compared to their respective vehicle-treated one.
Significance: This study indicated that nandrolone, associated or not with resistance training increases blood pressure depending on the treatment time, induces prolongation of the QTc interval, and increases the expression of β1- and β2-adrenergic receptors in the cardiac right atrium, but not in the left ventricle.
Thanks for all this, and reporting ur anecdotal experience using nandrolone as a base. My erections have been amazing on a nandrolone base. I have a rating for how I like things to function down there, rn things are the best they can be in regards to erections. My scale is basically being able to get fully hard just by thinking about sex, not touching it or looking at porn (that’s where I am currently on a nandrolone base), then it goes getting hard while looking at porn but not touching it, then it goes getting hard while watching porn and having to touch it, and then if I’m watching porn and touching it, and it’s still difficult to get erect, or takes a long time, I know somethings wrong. It’s just a rough scale that I’ve used to see where I’m at sexually over the years on HRT. I’ve bounced around between all those at one point or another. On 200mg of deca, and 60mg of test, erections are a 10/10 I would say. Extremely easy to get them, and keep them. Libido is still only like a 6/10, but is there whenever I need it, so no biggie. I do prefer libido higher tho. I think I may just need to get my E2 up more. On this protocol E2 has been around 32-34. I usually do better with E2 around 40-60, so I just upped my test from 63mg/ week, to 84mg/ week. Will get E2 tested again in like 5 weeks or so.
Can I ask u where ur E2 was around when u were using nandrolone as ur base? How many times did u have it tested? What’s ur SHBG? My SHBG is mid 30’s atm, but it’s always binded to my sex hormones like it was higher, so I tend to need a higher total T to get decent free T levels, and I assume the same holds true for E2.
Amen! Confuses laypeople and counter productive to folks trying to get anabolic therapy for legitimate purposes.I wish all of you guys stopped calling nandrolone Deca. That brand was abandoned around 20 years ago and it only stigmatizes the drug for clinical uses and puts physicians in a very tough spot. You will set us back. USE THE GENERIC NAME!!!!
Companies Abandon AIDS Wasting Patients - Program for Wellness Restoration
On March 20, Watson Laboratories stopped the production of nandrolone decanoate (old brand name: Deca Durabolin), a low cost injectable anabolic used for HIV wasting, citing lack of raw material suppliers for the product. Patients found out when they went to their pharmacies for a prescription a...powerusa.org
The End of Nandrolone
On March 20, 2007, Watson Laboratories stopped the production of nandrolone decanoate (old brand name: Deca Durabolin), a low-cost injectable anabolic steroid used for HIV wasting, citing the lack ofwww.thebody.com
Treatment for HIV Wasting Withdrawn
Organon International of West Orange, New Jersey, the only U.S. maker of Deca Durabolin (nandrolone decanoate), an injectable anabolic steroid used by many HIV-positive people to combat AIDS-associatewww.thebodypro.com