how much 12.5 mg aromasin and 6.25 mg aromasin lower oestradiol ?
- Thread starter eudes
- Start date
lowe2sucks
Member
imo start 6.25mg
its always to underdo AI then to overdo AI trust me I am one of those folks who got messed up real bad from taking too much AI its much worse then high estrogen because e2 crash damages your dopamine (lowers motivation and pleasure response from activities) which takes very lnog time to recover and many other things
some folks are over responders to AIs and they crash their estrogen with low doses
i honestly wouldnt even bother lowering e2 at that level.. its good level your body will adjust to that e2 with time and you will feel really good trust me. unless its so high that its out of range don't just lower it because its on high side its still in range
its always to underdo AI then to overdo AI trust me I am one of those folks who got messed up real bad from taking too much AI its much worse then high estrogen because e2 crash damages your dopamine (lowers motivation and pleasure response from activities) which takes very lnog time to recover and many other things
some folks are over responders to AIs and they crash their estrogen with low doses
i honestly wouldnt even bother lowering e2 at that level.. its good level your body will adjust to that e2 with time and you will feel really good trust me. unless its so high that its out of range don't just lower it because its on high side its still in range
lowe2sucks
Member
Before you start your aromasin take your time and read this please https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?14388-Estradiol-and-lbido&p=104438#post104438
TransitPoloce
New Member
Do you actually need an AI? I got horrible joint issues on 6.25 x 2 a week aromasin.
In my experience that dose barely lowered my E2 measurements but gave me a lot of joint symptoms. I couldn't believe how night and day it was when I stopped taking it.
In my experience that dose barely lowered my E2 measurements but gave me a lot of joint symptoms. I couldn't believe how night and day it was when I stopped taking it.
i know that ou only need an AI if you feel the symptoms
Unfortunately even with E2 not that high , i got puffy nipples/ gynecomastia ; so i need to lower them !
6.25 mg twice a week should be enough for a starting dosage according to you ?
or more 12.5 mg twice a week ?
and sorry for my english ( i am french )
Unfortunately even with E2 not that high , i got puffy nipples/ gynecomastia ; so i need to lower them !
6.25 mg twice a week should be enough for a starting dosage according to you ?
or more 12.5 mg twice a week ?
and sorry for my english ( i am french )
Vince
Super Moderator
I definitely would start with that low level, you don't want to take a chance of tanking your estradiol levels
Vince
Super Moderator
It's probably not much of concern but most men take their AI the day after they inject their testosterone. That way there half-life will matchup.
Just for your information in my three plus years of trt I've never needed or even felt that I needed an AI.
I got high E2 symptoms from E2 = 40 as well. Whats your Total and free T levels? If you're a low SHBG guy it could be as simple as lowering your dose (how much do you pin?).
I was low SHBG and at peak had E2=40 T=1420 (trough not tested). Halving my dose worked beautifully for me.
I was low SHBG and at peak had E2=40 T=1420 (trough not tested). Halving my dose worked beautifully for me.
Vince
Super Moderator
Testosterone serum 880 ng/dL range 264 - 916
Free T 32.3 pg/mL range 6.6 - 18.1
DHEA - Sulfate 384.4 range 48.9 - 344.2
Estradiol, Sensitive 28.5 range 8.0 - 35.0
SHBG 39.7 range 19.3 - 76.4
HCT 48.0 range 37.5 - 51.0
DHT 54.0 range 30 - 85
Since your free T is significantly out of range, I think lowering dose could work. You could lower dose to 2/3 of what you currently pin, and your free T would still be above maximum range, yet your E2 would lower. You could even halve your dose and your free T would still be at the top of the range (16+ pg/ml) and E2 would lower significantly. Healthiest option imo.
Vince
Super Moderator
I feel good at this level, I have no plan at this time to change my protocol.
Oh some confusion here, my posts were aimed at original poster Eudes who wanted to lower E2, and I wrongly assumed you were quoting his labs. Apologies Vince for the confusion.
@eudes In my personal experience, 0.25mg (you read that right, 1/100 of tablet) every two weeks brought my E2 from 60 down to 10 where it stayed over the period of 2 years. (Lots of effort to convince NHS doctors to permit blood tests otherwise I'd have stopped aromasin). Hence, I'd take it far less frequently than twice a week. Also 6.25mg has virtually the same effect as 25mg for most males (and this is true all the way down to 2.5mg according to a study) so I'd reduce aromasin dose too. Thats why I was asking for labs - if free T is supraphysiological you could cut down the dose, that worked for me much better than using aromasin to skew my T/E ratio. Aromasin removes 70-80% of E2 in one dose (after a day), so you might quickly find yourself too low.
wandering81
New Member
Exact same thing happened to me. Been on exemestane for 5 years with trt. First year 12.5 2x weekly. Second year 6.25 2x weekly. Within the last few years, 1-2mg weekly has crashed me. Ive been taking a HALF mg once a week or so. That hasnt crashed me yet, but wouldnt be surprised if it did in the future after reading this.
Reading this above, I'd like to discuss this a bit further:
I've lately been looking into Aromasin (Exemestane) as monoteraphy and found a lot of conflicting information about dosing. Studies done on men use the female chemotheraphy dose of 25mg/day (and compared it to 50mg/day, both doses had the same effect). According to most online forums these doses are overkill, so I looked into studies that use a smaller dose. I found two, but note that they aren't done on men, the subjects are postmenopausal women:
The first shows pretty well how they come up with the 25mg/day dose:
Endocrine and clinical effects of exemestane (PNU 155971), a novel steroidal aromatase inhibitor, in postmenopausal breast cancer patients: a phase... - PubMed - NCBI
They started from 5mg then 10mg, 25mg and we already know we are not interested in the higher doses for trt purposes. So my interpretation (feel free to comment):
5mg/day: E2 suppression already at it's peak.
10mg/day: E1 supression at it's peak (E2 suppression hsn't grown since the 5mg dose).
25mg/day: E1S suppression at it's peak (E1 and E1 supp. already maxed out at 10mg).
Suppressing E1 and E1S makes sense when you are treating breast cancer. But when you are trying to boost LH via lowering the estrogen feedback loop it's completely fine if you only suppress E2 to the max. So based on the above the test boosting effect of 5mg/day would be the same as 25mg/day.
Let's look at the 2.5mg study:
The minimal effective exemestane dose for endocrine activity in advanced breast cancer. - PubMed - NCBI
It's not overly precise in the Abstract so if anyone has access to the entire study be as kind and qoute the relevan numbers/tables for the exact suppression numbers.
However as I am deciphering this is:
They used 0.5, 1, 2.5 or 5 mg doses. 'Serum E1, E2 and E1S levels were suppressed by all doses starting from day 7; the degree of inhibition versus baseline was 25 up to 72% for E1, 30 up to 62% for E2 and 16 up to 52% for E1S, with higher doses achieving greater suppression'
if dose dependancy is linear and I am reading this correctly:
0.5mg/day: E1:25%,E2: 30%,E1S: 16%
1mg/day: E1: ~50%,E2: 62% (max suppression), E1S: ~32%
2.5mg/day: E1: ~62% (maxed out),E2 (was already maxed out at 1mg), E1S: ~52% (maxed out)
5mg/day: everything was already maxed out at 2.5mg/day.
The study also states: 'doses ranging from 2.5 to 25 mg induced a similar suppression of oestrogens '
So if my interpretation of the second study is correct than the two studies are somewhat in contradiction. But both agree in that at 5mg/day E2 suppression (what is interesting for us) is already at it's max though.
So this explains why a single dose of 6.25mg suppress guys on the estradiol sensitive tests as a single dose of 25mg. Let's get on to 2times a week dosing:
Finally a study on men:
Pharmacokinetics and Dose Finding of a Potent Aromatase Inhibitor, Aromasin (Exemestane), in Young Males
'The terminal half-life was 8.9 h. Maximal estradiol suppression of 62 ± 14% was observed at 12 h after a single 25-mg dose of exemestane. Estradiol remained suppressed by 58 ± 21% at 24 h and returned to baseline 3–6 d after treatment'
So first, depending on how fast your body is producing new aromatase enzime you are back to baseline between 3-6 days. Second, in 27hours or roughly a day after taking aromasin only 1/8 of the dose taken is present in your body. So even if you take 25mg what you are doing is maybe prolonging the return to baseline by one day compared to taking a 5mg dose.
So this confirms why 6.25mg twice a week has the same effect as 25mg twice a week.
This also means 5mg/day would suppress you more than 25mg twice a week.
What I would be interested in is someone with access to having estradiol sensitive blood tests (yes I am located in Europe, so I don't...) could confirm or oppose the above findings on personal experience (perhaps somebody who is not an overresponder and has experinece with taking at least 12.5mg doses in the past).
So:
Does 0.5mg have a noticable effect on your E2 sensitive results?
Does 1mg have double the effect on your E2?
Does 2.5mg really have no further effect above the 1mg dose on your E2?
If no what would be the dose of max effect?
Etc.
just 0.25 did that. I mixed one tablet with vodka and taking now .025 which didn't crash my E, still fine tuning the dosage though.Arimidex or Anastrozole would be a different compound. This discussion is about Exemestane (Aromasin).
Another low dose study showing 2.5mg and 5mg and 25mg having the same effect on both E2 and E1 can be found here with detailed numbers (click on the pictures) Endocrinological and clinical evaluation of exemestane, a new steroidal aromatase inhibitor.
Another low dose study showing 2.5mg and 5mg and 25mg having the same effect on both E2 and E1 can be found here with detailed numbers (click on the pictures) Endocrinological and clinical evaluation of exemestane, a new steroidal aromatase inhibitor.
High E2 is a big problem for me this is the first thing I read about Aroasin.
https://www.elitefitness.com/forum/pct-post-steroid-cycle-therapy/exemestane-aromasin-king-anti-estrogens-628003.html
Today I take one pill 25 mgs E3D on the day of my T shot my E2 is tested the day of my shot but before it and the Aromasin. E2 comes back at 20 to 30 pg/ml.
pmgamer18
https://www.elitefitness.com/forum/pct-post-steroid-cycle-therapy/exemestane-aromasin-king-anti-estrogens-628003.html
Today I take one pill 25 mgs E3D on the day of my T shot my E2 is tested the day of my shot but before it and the Aromasin. E2 comes back at 20 to 30 pg/ml.
pmgamer18
Vince Carter
Banned
I ran thru all manner of dosing with Aromasin from 6.25 E3.5d all the way to 12.5mg/D and everything in between and I liked it, worked very well and better than Anastrozole. For me my E is stubbornly elevated and I'm very sensitive to even a little E.
There's absolutely no way to related how X dose is going to reduce your E, there's no way to do that, no part of this is linear like that...start low and titrate up/down backed up with labs.
There's absolutely no way to related how X dose is going to reduce your E, there's no way to do that, no part of this is linear like that...start low and titrate up/down backed up with labs.
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